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[Imp]

Quarque: why so interested in third parties?

What did Quarque say that seems so interested in third parties to you?

[TricMagic]

Withdraw previous trade offer.

[webadict]

@sofa:  You're asking me to defend myself from accusations of I pretended to be a bad guy... and what else?

Webadict: Why did you lie about having a second wincon?

Three reasons:  First, because it doesn't matter if I do or don't.  Second, because I still might or might not be lying.  And third, because if I don't lie, I suffer from a crippling disease that leaves me delirious and catatonic and bored.  Also, it really depends on your definition of lying.  I never said that I had a second win condition, just that I technically win and leave the game, which is technically true, in that the game would likely be over immediately, given I would likely have enough power to immediately end the game in a Town win.

Hence why I asked people to claim the Emeralds.  I believe anyone hiding them at this point would likely be Mafia, and that it would be an effective way to narrow down scum.  No one else really has a reason to hide them, now do they?

[Crystalizedmire]

What if the emeralds are useful to town and doesn't need you to be usable?

[TricMagic]

The emeralds themselves aren't alignment indicative.
Also, webadict does hae a secondary wincon, who confirmed it?

What if the emeralds are useful to town and doesn't need you to be usable?

I've already asked, they're jut chunks of rock to us with no actions attached.

[Elephant Parade]

You're either misreading me or you like it because it helps you to have a town player lynched. Not sure which. But here is an idea. I have apples for trade that soft confirm me as town, because they specifically help against mafia. I can trade you one of those. If you still vote me afterwards and I'm lynched, everyone will see it and know you're mafia.
If you're town though, an apple will help you. Win win for me. Deal?

This makes me uneasy, simply as straight out claim.

We pick our spheres before we get alignments, and for all I know we get our powers before we get alignments too.  To my read, you're making the claim that nqt would absolutely never create a mafia role that gave other players 'protection against the mafia'.

Heck, webadict's supernatural N1 had mafia killing mafia, with a disrupted action that should have ensured the kill was redirected, but didn't.  Mafia protected from mafia could be incredibly useful in a game like this too, we already have a claim of an item that can change hands even if you don't want it, that can draw 'first' kill or night kill to the person with the item.

So to my thinking, a mafia member that can give protection from mafia is incredibly useful for mafia.  They know who has the protection, they don't go kill that person just yet, and maybe try to lynch instead.  They can protect their own, even from being given that dangerous page of attracting the first kill at night.

Is there something more you can explain why we should just say 'ooh, Qua is town, yay!  I eat an apple and get protection from mafia, and this is town for sure sure sure!'

While I concur with the sentence that follows, that seems extremely unlikely! Imp, this is your second implausible hypothetical and I don't much like it, especially since you've been very speculative in general.

[Crystalizedmire]

Imp's second implausible hypothetical? Where was the first?

[Elephant Parade]

Imp's second implausible hypothetical? Where was the first?

This:

Then isn't the obvious solution to give it to whoever you think is most likely to be scum so they get teamkilled?

We'd better confirm that give happens before the kill.  I have a question about that waiting for an answer now.

Thinking on it further, this wasn't a very big deal. I think it's an extremely strange thing to be worried about (generally speaking, everything resolves before kills unless otherwise stated; why wouldn't Give?), but I'm not sure what scum would get out of doing that. I still stand by the general thrust of my post.

[Imp]

Qua, connected with my above recent question... there you were claiming to be town and to specifically help others with Apples Against Mafia which you want to trade with, ideally not give.  You hint at a wincon that involves trading.

Then you say this:

I have a oneshot ability that can save you pretty reliably, Toony.
Mafia might kill me because I said that, but if you're town your life is more valuable than mine.

Just eh.. some reassurance that you're actually town would be good.

I'd think mafia might want to kill you because of the apples alone, plus if you're not mafia, that's good enough too.  But why are you saying that if Toon is town, toon's life is more valuable than yours?

Also if you can reliably save folks, that's pretty valuable.  And if you believed what Toons said about the item drawing kills, how is mafia supposed to kill you?

I'm weirded out by your sets of claims because they don't add up to math that works in my head.  This feels like a weird lot of claims that have a lot of lie in them.  I get that there can be pro-town lies, but I don't get the sense of your story, it feels weirdly a mix of fishy for setup info and getting items (trade apples for, rawr!) and you're town/other town lives worth more than yours/this kill/protection stuff not making sense.

[Imp]

EBWOP That adds up to 'loads of reasons not to kill me and let me do my stuff, just trust me only scum would go for me', with reasons backing them up that I don't get the math for.

Can you explain/help/clarify the inconsistencies that don't seem to be pro-town lies?

[Imp]

Checking with you, EP.

Imp's second implausible hypothetical? Where was the first?

This:

Then isn't the obvious solution to give it to whoever you think is most likely to be scum so they get teamkilled?

We'd better confirm that give happens before the kill.  I have a question about that waiting for an answer now.

Thinking on it further, this wasn't a very big deal. I think it's an extremely strange thing to be worried about (generally speaking, everything resolves before kills unless otherwise stated; why wouldn't Give?), but I'm not sure what scum would get out of doing that. I still stand by the general thrust of my post.

So, did you miss this?

Ninja? In case of hammers, note that Items are passed out. Actions still occur even if a player is killed, cause dying happens at end of night. So the page would draw the kill, you give it away to aonther, then you die.

If what I asked and checked on was implausible for you, how do you read TM's statements and order of operations here?

[Imp]

Fallacy unambiguously being not town-allied

Hey, why do you think this?

[NJW2000]

Too, too much talking.

Quarque: may not be able to make the trade, if I need to trade with Toony instead. Sorry, I'd have loved an apple. Instead of a bomb.

Toonyman: would you be willing to trade the bible page for something? I'm probably the best person to give it to at the moment.

If I end up dead, I end up dead. If I end up protected, I end up protected. And it gives info I don't have.

I'm pretty sure I can survive having the item, at least for some time. We may want to give it to Imp after that time if they can destroy/defuse/remove it, but for now, I think this can ruin the mafiakill.

uhh wait, Imp seems to think you can just hot potato hand it off to someone like "enjoy the mafiakill lol"

In which case I'd still like to trade for it today but for different reasons. Or rather the same reasons everyone else would like an item that let them pick the mafiakill target, heh. But that seems unlikely.

What did Quarque say that seems so interested in third parties to you?

Here, Quarque started talking about third parties. Early game vote, more of an excuse to see how they'd act under pressure (two other votes).

He didn't crack at all, at least. It's not proof he's town, but I liked how he dealt with early game questions.

Just because it might be good to know, would it be probably bad for town even if anti-town targeted you with something non-lethal?

  Uhh...

Imp, why on earth would it be good to know that?

[Crystalizedmire]

Elephant Parade: Imp makes a lot of implausible scenarios as town, why do you think they're not town here?

[EuchreJack]

sofanthiel should keep scum hunting.

Hunting other people than Fallacy, I mean.

sofanthiel should keep scumhunting people other than Fallacy.

Jack, did you just jump on the bandwagon or actually read who I've been accusing before placing the vote?

I voted you because you were voting Fallacy.

Fallacy unambiguously being not town-allied

Hey, why do you think this?

I would like an answer to this. You might earn yourself an "unvote".