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Author Topic: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)  (Read 12067 times)

Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2007, 02:26:00 am »

My reasoning for not having the SWAT teams milling around the police station is my theory that they probably won't be geared up for a fight if they're just sitting around the station having donuts. I think they should be able to respond faster than they do if you're attacking the police station though, that should probably divide the response time in half, or even a quarter. Same for police chase after you get out, which is also based on time since the alarm goes off. Heck, probably easiest just to overheat the internal "time since alarm" clock to run quadruple speed or something while you're in the police station, so that attacking the police station actually feels like you just walked into the hornet's nest.

Another thing I'd like to see would be special "boss" characters for many of the target locations. Unique Conservatives of a different color who are a specific news story and big crime if killed, don't appear more than once in a location, don't accept date requests, are hard to kidnap, hive high stats, act as "super sleepers" who severely neutralize their faction if you can pull it off... people like "Police Chief", "CEO", "Eminent Scientist" and "Prison Warden".

Get the prison warden as a sleeper, and you never have to worry about losing contact with your people in prison again... get the police chief as a sleeper, and you'll almost always be warned before a police raid and nobody will rat you out under police pressure... key game-changing advantages that would only come from epic attempts and coordinated planning due to how difficult the targets are made.

On the other hand, simply targeting them for assassination would be easier, and also weaken the targets until a new one arrives. Maybe killing the CEO prevents corp raids for a time (but permanently angers the corporations, of course!). Maybe killing the police chief will ward off police raids for awhile. Maybe the Eminent Scientist's death will result in a little too much inquiry into just what that guy was actually doing, and prevent any positive breakthroughs that would have hit the news. Always would make the locations be high security for a good long time afterwards...

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Xavior

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2007, 03:31:00 am »

Snazzy                        :D  On the other hand with their likely low wisdom, they'd probably be one of the easiest to get on your side.

--- Uhm...should Murder, Assault, Carrying an Illegal Weapon and Resisting Arrest NOT be scary enough to warrant a good prosecution? Because I just got a terrible one o_O, and add credit card fraud and breaking into an information system to that list.


Wow. Getting everyone in the country to have elite liberal views isn't enough to keep the conservatives from winning.

Scary.

I can just imagine the articles in the future press that the writers get executed for.

Looking toward the lost hope of The Liberal Guardian.

Oy. I just wandered around a crack house with an assault rifle, and a conservative high school dropout...decided to punch me.

That's ugly.  Maybe unarmed Conservatives should automatically flee if you have a weapon and there's a Conservative Alarm, unless for some reason they're really good at hand to hand combat. Crack houses should also have a much lower response time for Massive Conservative Response.


I also think you should be able to persuade people without recruiting them.
It takes like 3 pages of people to raise persuasion by one point ;P That's a little ridiculous.


Also you never made gun control show up on the polls. Does it still have a view %?

You know, after you win a siege or two, and they can't escalate any further(national guard troops are already being deployed, and the tanks can't get in, could they if I didn't have tank traps? o_O) and they know they can't beat you through a straight invasion, they should automatically surround the compound, forcing you to wait it out, or leave the compound with a squad to face them.


Then again, you wouldn't be able to kill swarms of Conservative Forces that way            ;) So, they could either do that. Or at least get scared of you and stick in much larger groups, until you're forced to fight a Full Scale War, until eventually they outnumber you and you're forced to retreat into the city and TRY to escape.


And why don't I get juice for Defending the Compound? My horde of gang members are all punks and dregs, though they're all wielding captured M16s. It makes sense though. Otherwise you'd quickly get ridiculously powerful, even moreso than just having alot of hands to hold weapons, making it a ridiculously easy way to get a large number of people alot of juice. And massacres aren't very Liberal.


...a dog tore out 27 teeth...


Bad bug that I anticipated and avoided but just did on accident. If you (R)eorganize while in a siege, and there's no one in your squad when you press 1, the game crashes.

This time a broken save on windows, happened after all the trials were over. Akira got sentenced as guilty(Didn't go the smertypants route) And so did everyone else except for two or three. I had everyone defend themself. But...the save is corrupt, so you can't do it again.
Save here
I basically just had a Huge mass of gang members shooting up the poleece. It was fun for awhile but it got old, and everyone was pretty trashy except for their M16 skillz(and murder tends to get people killed;P), so I didn't want to try to advance them all.(I'd probably end up forgetting to transfer some of them every time the police came anyway)
I think the last 15 or so gang members may have been recruited by other gang members. And I've had other crashes involving hierarchal structure, so that's likely it. But I can't be sure. :-/ Playing after I got out of jail in 20 years or whatever I got sentenced for would have been fun too.


Hehe, you made a heavy ballistic vest and then didn't give it to anyone.

o_O I'm going up against disturbing the peace charges and getting solid cases every time. Did you get your scarefactor code backwards?


When you have no bullets in your gun, the number of clips should be dark gray, but unless it's <xx>, it's the same color as the bullet count

[ June 13, 2007: Message edited by: Xavior ]

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Xavior

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2007, 10:08:00 pm »

I think there should be more kinds of business fronts, and that you should be able to set people to actually just work for the business, and generate...stuff. You should maybe be able to sell things too. Run a sweatshop and sell things automatically! Just have some people up front to take moneys and push product. Such a business would likely attract much more attention than usual though, as the corporations lose profits to your undercutted products, and possibly put pressure on the police to investigate your dealings. Adding heat all on it's own. If you manage to avoid getting taken down by the police long enough(Hello police sleepers) Your Liberal Clothiers will likely end up becoming the subject of a corporate mass execution.

Would being revealed to be running a sweatshop raise or lower the people's views? Having them all turn up dead very well might change something. Just having them working for themselves and not for the wealth of the Corporation might let them get Liberal Juice from competing against them and taking their profits to fund your Liberal Goals, pushing them up from being the Dregs of Society. And making it easier for you to send them out to perform Liberal Acts of their own.

Or would such a thing simply be too Conservative to be Justified?


When compiling the windows code under linux it's behaving as though NDEBUG was set.(polls are exact)

Adding #define NDEBUG=false works. Any other defines that shouldn't be true should be set as false somewhere as well just to be sure.


When Vector.h is called it's included as vector.h. UNIX is case sensitive, so that's bad :P Renaming Vector.h to vector.h would fix that. It doesn't really matter right now though since unless windows things are defined it drops down to #include <vector> anyway.


I'm sorry if I'm giving you too much to do >_>

[ June 15, 2007: Message edited by: Xavior ]

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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2007, 03:27:00 pm »

I agree with having a special office for boss-type characters. I think that gives a lot of opportunities for fine-tuning the way the encounter works. Making them very rare outside of the office would make it a real treat when it happens, and a "I can't miss this opportunity!" moment.

I'd like to see them be untargetable unless they're the only one in the room with you. You come in, they call a bunch of security guards, you have to defeat the security guards, and only then can you attack or take hostage the leader. During this time, they're yelling Conservative slogans and generally hurting your party's wisdom and juice. If you're holding them hostage, then instead of accidentally hitting them when the enemy gets a bad roll, they'll instead cause the enemy to hold fire, worried about hitting them.

Of course, if it's just the Eminent Scientist, it may be as you suggested, that they try to shoo you for a few rounds, and you have the chance to get a first strike attack or take them hostage before they call for real security.

---

As it stands that isn't sufficient to get a good prosecution. In fact, assault, carrying an illegal weapon, and resisting arrest don't contribute anything to the scarefactor, and you need three murder changes to add up to a strong prosecution. This may be too strict.

Disturbing the peace shouldn't give the prosecution a bonus, but they can still roll up a solid case, there's just no guarantee of it.

---

I don't think crack houses should have alarms over carrying weapons. There are liberal gang members toting AK-47s in there, so why should the odd conservative biker get freaked out over you? Or maybe it should just be a special case: weapons are ignored, but wearing a police uniform is a red flag...

I wouldn't mind seeing unarmed conservatives run away if you have a gun.

---

I think that chatting about the issues and dating should let you see their character sheet. Then you can decide whether you want to go ahead and recruit them or not.

---

Gun control doesn't have a view %. It's based on police, prisons, and maybe the death penalty. If people are in favor of powerful police, brutal prisons, and executing criminals, they'll favor deterring crime by having lots of guns. If people are in favor of benevolent police, humane prisons, and rehabilitating criminals, they'll favor deterring crime by preventing access to guns. So the theory goes, anyway.  :o

---

After they can't escalate any further, they start dropping bombs on your compound. This will only happen in a siege though. I think you're right, and at this point they should try to just have a siege. They'd still eventually get tired of waiting you out and attack, but only after dismantling the tank traps, cutting the lights, blowing up your generator, and making a few bombing runs to try to thin your numbers. Trying to escape at this point would result in them not engaging, but instead sitting outside the compound at the front steps, with just a bunch of soldiers and a tank or two, waiting for you to come out so they can all get at least one good shot off, including the tanks, as you run for it. They'd still run if you killed enough soldiers outside, but with tanks in the same square, that would be much more difficult, as tanks are invincible and do big damage.

---

I never decided what to do with the heavy ballistic vest.  :D

---

The bullets in gun problem was probably caused by me when I was editing the color that the gun prints out based on the suspicious/illegal status of it.

---

Shouldn't having your business be more than just a front be less suspicious, not more? But yeah, I can see giving negative juice people a way to come back up to 0 by working a day job. It should be something properly Liberal, however.

In the long run I was thinking that the Liberal Guardian should be an above-board operation, and instead of relying on secret printing presses, you'd buy the building of a defunct newspaper and set up the official public offices of the Liberal Guardian there, stationing people there to work for the newspaper.

Eventually, there are plans to have a medical skill. I think that this should be used as the foundation to be able to set up a free LCS clinic for the poor (and for your hurt Liberals). This would replace the FREE Clinic, and then the University Hospital would charge you medical bills and report gunshot wounds to the police.

It is currently very important that the LCS be popular. It's also very easy to become popular at the moment. I think that in the future, there is potential to further exploit this. You could make violence hurt the LCS's popularity except when the issues affected are very Conservative (so that many people, even if they don't consciously realize it, have secret anger about the issue anyway). Yet violence is the most effective way to move the issues. So what's the balance? Finding other ways to ensure the LCS remains popular. A group like Hamas doesn't just become popular by violent resistance, they also provide social services, jobs, and healthcare, proving to the people that they're the good guys who are working to improve the people's lives, and that they can be trusted to exercise judgment in determining who the bad guys are who need to be fought against. Even the SLA which the LCS is based on managed to get food distributed to the poor during hostage negotiations, and to this day I have heard people who, based on this, have said "Well, at least they got food to the needy poor..."

---

Regarding the NDEBUG issue, the problem is not that it's being defined as true, the problem is that's not being defined at all for you. The way the game tests NDEBUG is that it just checks if if it's defined as anything at all -- and if it's not, then it assumes you want debug mode. In Visual Studio, NDEBUG is only defined if you compile LCS in release mode, and this helps to ensure that debugging is easier. To force the game to compile without debug cheats on, you can add this:

#ifndef NDEBUG
#define NDEBUG
#endif

The #ifndef wrapper will prevent the preprocessor from choking due to a macro redefinition when Visual Studio compiles the game in release mode. I had actually added this to the latest release, but it looks like that was lost when visual studio crashed on me without saving changes, so unfortunately it's not there now.

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Svirfneblim

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2007, 03:34:00 pm »

Liberal sweatshop... Hmm...

That doesn't sound too reasonable. Rescuing people from slavery just to have them work for *you* is not too liberal.

On other hand, it could be interesting if you could give the workers work but without exploitation. That way they would earn you very little money, but still some.
Of course they would still attract heat, because you are making your stuff without goverment permission and you are employing illegal immigrants.

Maybe there could be more jobs than clothing? How about being able to put your guys with at least 1 computers skill into selling pirated CD's? Or having your prostitutes and other high-charisma liberals actually you know...Prostitute?

By the way, how about an ability to sell stolen cars? Maybe for very cheap, but it could make thieves more useful.

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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2007, 03:49:00 pm »

People will engage in prostitution if you tell them to cause trouble/sell brownies/solicit donations when they have negative juice. Prostitutes used to start with 0 juice, so didn't do this. I changed this in 3.10 or shortly thereafter though.

Edit: I like having thieves selling stolen cars.

[ June 15, 2007: Message edited by: Jonathan S. Fox ]

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Xavior

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2007, 04:41:00 pm »

I had pages and pages of activists when they were getting arrested for disturbing the peace and almost never getting less than a solid case(I gained 3 persuasion from recruiting them all)

On the other hand, I seem to recall my people who sat at home and killed dozens of swat team members and soldiers getting fairly low cases.

---

I believe wearing an official type uniform already counts as a bad disguise in a crackhouse. But then, I never did anything of the sort after I was first beginning, so I could be wrong. I like the idea of high-crime areas having completely different rules.

---

So do I! I always thought it was weird that I never got to see anything about them until they were back at the shelter.

Would chatting people up and then deciding not to recruit them raise the issue you're talking about all by itself?(Probably not by  a whole percentage point, but it could add up)

---

That sounds like exactly what I was thinking when you have apparently unbreakable defenses.

---

Heavy ballistic vests make me think of hostage negotiators!

---

Less suspicious if your business is innocuous and apparently incredibly dedicated. More suspicious if your business is Actually Illegal. Much More suspicious if your front is Obviously related to your organization. But a higher heat value required to invade it the more effort you put in to making it legitimate. (The police aren't going to shoot up your free clinic because you happen to have a member in it when you're treating dozens or hundreds of poor people. Unless the country is already Very Conservative)

The Official Liberal Guardian HQ sounds neat, and is basically what I've been doing(Of course the place is usually called an auto insurance company or a temp agency :-/)

I also think it should not be nearly so easy to become popular. You can kill hundreds of people and EVERYONE WILL LOVE YOU, as long as you don't kill moderates or liberals --_--. I think the polls should reflect a percentage of people who are Arch Conservative, Moderate, etc. So that killing people will only really impress Elite Liberals, and Arch Conservatives will remain Arch Conserservatives until you deal with them Personally(lulz:P)  If everyone in the country really thought you were awesome, the police wouldn't invade(unless you were killing people), the CIA would make all it's dealings with you be undercover, (The cameras and power go out! -- Defend -- The CIA steals their secret documents and leaves again if you don't catch them) and the only people you'd have to worry about are the corporations until they become dissolved(It only takes 1 CEO hating your guts, and they probably all do...)

I wrote some notes earlier when I was explaining to someone the concept of the game, and trying to justify the fact that being a violent criminal is good for public opinion ;P

Stealing things only really influences public opinion because when you commit crimes in a place, in order for the police to investigate them they have to investigate the place you're stealing from as well. If the media got a high coverage of your actions (You stole everything in the joint not bolted own ;D) then they will uncover things about the place as well.

Fighting should really be what influences whether the story turns in your favor or against you(And would likely affect the issues as well) Based primarily on the witness accounts. Conservatives will always give Conservative accounts, but Moderates and Liberals would have their own view of the situation. Watching unarmed people getting shot at by security guards will probably make non-conservatives realize that not all criminals should be killed. When people actually start dying, it really affects public opinion of your squad. If you kill a dozen people, even liberals will likely turn against you. But if you have martyrs when no one so much as committed assault, almost everyone will likely feel for you.

"Imagine if someone went out and totally smashed up a horrible polluting industrial warehouse. Or released a swarm of genetic nightmares from a research institution. All while managing to not really offend anyone.

Or imagine if you DID offend people. Conservatives, who then TRIED TO SHOOT YOU(Because that is what Conservatives do) With witnesses seeing them attacking first.

No one saw you break things, but they DID see a bunch of gun nut security guards unloading a few dozen rounds into your general direction.

And what if you were KILLED. Imagine what kind of effect that would have on public opinion"

---

That explains it. #define NDEBUG probably told it to not enable debug even though I said =false ;P

---

I'd also like to see healing take place on a day by day basis. Having to go to the hospital for a month to get over a bruise is ridiculous.

Also, people who actually genuinely work at a place should really get some sort of bonus to moving around inside without raising an alarm. If I seduce a police officer and send them in to break someone out the next day, they likely shouldn't raise alarm and start a fire fight before they ever find the lockup ;P

Phoenix, AZ  - The Liberal Crime Squad has struck again,  albeit with a tragic
end.                                                                          
   The events took place at the Police Station.  Everyone in the LCS group was
killed by conservatives.                                                      
  Further details are sketchy, but police sources suggest that the LCS engaged
in unlawful entry.

I just got a bad case for disturbing the peace and another for assault, so I guess it's not broken  ;) just a fluke to have so many solid cases in a row I guess.

[ June 15, 2007: Message edited by: Xavior ]

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Xotes

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2007, 04:56:00 pm »

Just a quick suggestion: I was just escaping from the cops, driving around corners and such, when a cop blasted my leader/driver with a shotgun and BLEW HIS LEG OFF! Next turn, he blasts my torso into pieces, thereby having everybody in my car flattened. I think it would work better if there was a penalty to shooting at people in chases.
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2007, 08:21:00 pm »

Good idea. I'll put it on the list.  :)
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Demon

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2007, 04:38:00 pm »

I'd like to see sleeper lawyers who defend your guys get some juice and practice, just like guys who defend themselves.  For that matter, all sleepers should get juice over time.

Also, if you defend yourself in court and gain skill, it highlights the skill and raises is after a mission instead of just raising it.  It's like when you gain skill on site but it hasnt been added yet.

[ June 27, 2007: Message edited by: Demon ]

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Dwarmin

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2007, 07:21:00 pm »

How does ransoming captives sound? It would make sense that HVTs could be ransomed for their return. To make it interesting, maybe good hostage taker could convince them to not involve the police, but if they do, you wont know unless you have a mole in the police or FBI. A bad one wouldnt pick up on any deception, and your location would be traced. The captive in question would have to be watched more, and actually getting away with the money would be suicidal except for professionals-meaning it would be less than recouping losses trying to get a sleeper than an acutally way to get money.
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Aquillion

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2007, 12:39:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan S. Fox:
<STRONG>It then checks the next person, and by the time it's checked everyone, "lowest" ends up being the lowest "skill" of anyone in the group. So having a major pro disguise person in your group isn't going to help you in the least if her friend is naked.     ;)</STRONG>
Maybe there should be some small bonus to everyone based on the best disguise skill in the group?  Not enough to let a naked friend in, maybe, but a smart guy with a very high disguise skill could probably figure out how to work their one friend in a bad uniform into their group disguise (e.g. "yeah, he's always been a slob."  Or pretend that guy is a civilian being shown around, or whatever.)

Also, one idea I had a while back for sleepers...  it might be neat if there were options to give sleepers general directions for what you want them to do.  For instance, you could:

* Order them to 'lie low', so they don't do anything for you but are less likely to get caught.

* Order them to sneak you items, which nets you objects that vary based on their class, usually from places where that person is found (e.g. an agent could bring you hard-to-get guns, police could bring you uniforms, etc.)

* Order them to embezzle money for you.

* Order them to try and cover your tracks (a police sleeper could mislead investigations, say).

* Order them to keep an eye out and report to you, bringing you information from inside their organization (e.g. police/agent sleepers giving you details on investigations; lawyer/judge/police sleepers might also leak information that would help you in an upcoming trial.)

* Order them to sneak in hidden Liberal propaganda (which is what high media-profile sleepers do now.  Obviously, the higher-profile their job, the better their propaganda.)

* Assist in infiltration.  A sleeper with this order tries to help you sneak squads inside; whenever one of your squads gets into an encounter with conservatives, there's a chance your sleeper will wander by to try and smooth things over.  They also leave doors unlocked and provide you with information about where important things are.

* Any sleeper could be ordered to cause havok (i.e. smashing things, just like you do in a raid.)  This would generate headlines, but would be among the most risky things a sleeper could do; it'd usually only be worth doing for sleepers that are otherwise useless.  Sometimes they'd just blow themselves up by mistake, even.  Also, if they're caught (or even if they're not, but the LCS is fingered somehow), it'll hurt your group's reputation.

* Judges could actively try and get themselves assigned to cases where your people are involved.  They could also be ordered to try and engage in LIBERAL JUDICIAL ACTIVISM (TM), naturally; this wouldn't have a huge effect if the supreme court is tilted conservative, but it could help a little by affecting what issues are in the papers, and could impact laws directly if the court is more liberal itself.

Hrm.  I recall that getting people on the supreme court was a pain, even after you've beaten every other part of the game.  How about making it possible for your sleeper judges to get nominated to the supreme court by conservatives?  You'd have to order them to "groom themselves for the supreme court", and they couldn't engage in liberal judicial activism (tm) or they wouldn't be considered.  And having more sleeper judges would help a lot, too, of course...  more chances one will get chosen.  Letting players get an early start with the supreme court like this could help the endgame immensely, and it fits reality (once they're on the supreme court, your sleeper can unmask themselves and go 100% elite liberal and there's nothing anyone can do.  Well, a super-conservative government could have them executed for treason or something, I guess, or they could just be killed by a conservative death squad if things have gotten really bad, but sneaking one person onto the high court isn't likely to help in that case anyway.)

You could also set how much you want them to risk on an order--i.e. from "get it done eventually, but don't take any risks" to "get it done NOW, even if you blow your cover."

Police, Agent, and other law-related sleepers might also be ordered to try and sneak someone of yours who's been locked up out for you.

Sleeper lawyers could defend you in court, I guess, but wouldn't that risk blowing their cover?

Oh, also.  You ought to have the ability to just 'pull in' a sleeper, ordering them to report to base, drop their cover, and become a normal LCS member.

Perhaps there could also be an option to try and convert a normal LCS member into a sleeper, going the other way...  naturally they'd need a clean record, and having other sleepers in place would help, too (e.g. your sleeper talk radio host introduces the book written by your new sleeper author or whatever.)  It'd have to be pretty difficult, but could be interesting.

[ June 28, 2007: Message edited by: Aquillion ]

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Capntastic

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2007, 04:16:00 pm »

I actually like that you can't control sleeper agents.  It's more realistic that you'd have no contact with them.   Furthermore, wrangling with different groups with different orders is already my least favorite part of the game and this would just add to it.
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2007, 05:15:00 pm »

Regarding sleeper lawyers getting juice, sleeper lawyers don't defend you with their skill, there is just a fixed defense power for both hired and sleeper lawyers. Juice would do two things for them: 1) it would improve their effectiveness as sleeper influence by increasing their stats. I think this should come only by practice with sleeper influence, if at all though. 2) it would useful if you put them in a squad. I think you shouldn't be able to use sleepers in squads, however; I think of this as a bit of a subtle bug.

Regarding skill increases from court being highlighted instead of directly increased, yes, it takes a day to "sink in". You don't have to run a mission though, you can just wait a day without doing anything. All skills are improved only once at the end of the day, because it needs to do some extra calculations to determine if you have enough experience, and if your stats are high enough to be allowed to level up, etc.. Defending yourself in court only gives you about half a level of experience, so court really can't just directly improve the skills. It could force a check to let you level up immediately after, but I don't think it's really a big deal.

It'd be cool to be able to at least try to go through with hostage negotiations and maybe try to get some ransom. I put a long term request ticket up on the sourceforge tracker to the effect of having a hostage negotiation system.

I think it's reasonable to say that the highest disguise skill in the group gives you a bit of a boost, so that a suspicious person is less suspicious if escorted by a less suspicious person. I've added a request to the tracker about this too, as well as one mentioning the long term goal of expanding the sleeper system to make it more interesting. Personally, I'll probably work on adding a medical skill before continuing work on sleepers, however.

Capntastic, regarding what you're saying about having organizing all these different groups being your least favorite part of the game, part of my vision is to do the classic RPG separation of gameplay styles, where you're not forced to do any specific approach which you find to be unfun. I'd like to see the game definitely beatable with zero sleepers, or just minimal if you want a few advantages. I'd also like to see the "mastermind" player who likes to see all the little cogs working together be able to micromanage the organization without having to do a lot of dungeon crawl style work. That's kind of a vision statement though, and not attached to any specific design ideas.

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LordBucket

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Re: LCS game mechanics feedback (spoilers)
« Reply #59 on: July 08, 2007, 08:51:00 pm »

Hello.

I just download Liberal Crime Squad for the first time and started playing it. I like the idea, but I have to admit the game is frustrating. The interface is not exactly the greatest, and it seems plagued with a lot of randomness. Anyway, I started a list of feeback/questions/feature requests, etc. but unfortunately there seems to be a nasty bug in 3.11.2 that basically makes it unplayable. So, I expect that I'll go back and try 3.09, but here is what I've come up with in the meantime.

* Any time after a jury trial, regardless of the outcome, I seem to lose access to menu options. Most frustratingly: "F) Go forth and stop EVIL". Viewing my character, I see that I'm at "The shelter" but scrolling through the locations via the "Z" command doesn't make a difference.  This basically ends the game.

* Going on a date seems to generate this behavior as well. Frustrating.

* Why exactly is selling brownies illegal? I assume this is some sort of veiled drug reference, but if we're selling drugs, why does it make so pathetically little money?

* It might be nice if there were a larger list of initial character selection questions, and which questions you actually receive were a random selection from that list.

* Gender: It appears that the main character presumed to always be male, and that any and all NPC's automatically become female if the player tries to pick up on them. It might be more interesting for NPC's to have a fixed gender, which then affects how the player may interact with them. Programmers, for instance, for useful for hacking, and should be relatively easy for a female liberal to seduce into the organization, but more difficult to convert via other means. But, we give female characters weaker fighting stats, and allow them to be kidnapped, raped, pregnant, etc.

* Why exactly do I let rednecks beat me up when I have an assault rifle?

* Proposed new location: Firing range in the "Outskirts of the City". Time and money spent here allow you to improve your gun skills.

* Proposed Interface change: It would be convenient to have options to equip weapons/armor from the "Profile of a Liberal" screen.

* Proposed Interface Change: It would be nice to be able to use arrow keys for movement.

* Feature Request: It would be nice to be able to disband people.

* Interface Request: It would be nice to have "available money" appear on various screen where you're asked how much money you'd like to spend on things. For instance, when converting a conservative.

* While performing liberal acts, my character was arrested. No option to flee, fight, talk, or anything. Just "you were arrested" and the character vanishes for several days before it's obvious that there will be a trial. This is displeasing.

* Jury trials appear to be largely an exercise in randomness. It would be nice if there was some way to influence them. For that matter, if I have other people in my group with high Law skill, why aren't they able to come in and represent my people on trial?

* Car theft is also sort of a silly exercise. I've never failed to jimmy a door. I've never found a key by looking. I've never failed to hotwire by the third attempt. There seems to be no disadvantage to having a hotwired car. Or if there is, there seems to be know what know.

* It seems like there are an awful lot of actions and results for which it's completely non-obvious what they accomplish. Somebody just pray painted some fur coats. Ok. That's nice. Did that help me? Did that annoy people? I presume this sort of thing influences popular opinion (though why this would convert people to my cause escapes me) but how much? There's no way to know.  A lot of this game is like shaking a black box with stuff inside it...without knowing what's in there, or what effect shaking is having. Ok, so now I have twenty people spray painting fur coats. Is that useful? How am I supposed to know?

* It might be nice to break up the "liberal acts of destruction" categories more usefully. If I have a programmer with 6 computer skill, I probably don't want him running around spray painting fur coats. But then, if I have someone with 1 computer skill, I probably don't want them executing DoS attacks.

* Why don't people with high paying jobs that I convert to my cause have cars?

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