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[The Architect]

Don't noob around with orc mods.

Use the new features. In your case, up the cavern difficulty in world generation, or just try new embarks. It's a flat-out lie that the new underground is generally not very dangerous. As with everything, worldgen caverns are set to "newb" settings to prevent driving new and/or incompetent players more crazy.

Lastly: if you found the orcs or anything else --modded or otherwise-- in the last version to be truly difficult, you've got problems. Orcs were pitiful compared to a well-trained and outfitted dwarf. Only now do you actually need to take threats seriously, with the new combat modeling and injury modeling. You don't need to be sieged by 20-70 orcs right on embark to be in danger. A half-dozen goblins are more dangerous to your difficult-to-train normal troops now than 70 orcs to 2 (easily attained) champions in the last version.

You're just making an appeal to nostalgia. One that's very out-of-place, in my opinion. Rushing yourself with enemies at early stages was the worst, most half-assed way to add difficulty imaginable. It's on par with ruining an RPG for yourself by grinding. The only reason we did it is that we lacked the ability to fix the combat system --which Toady has now done.

[arghy]

How do i set caverns to hard mode? i see abunch of vague settings akin to volcanism which i barely understood.

[Deon]

The only reason we did it is that we lacked the ability to fix the combat system --which Toady has now done.

Actually, the combat system is quite broken now. Toady said that he made a lot of typos (like stabbing attacks going much less deeper than slashing attacks).

Currently there are two obvious errors:
1) Slashing/bashing attacks go deeper than stabbing attacks. - Can be fixed via raws editing
2) Smaller area attacks with the same force cause LESS damage than larger arrea attack with the same force. - Can't be fixed via raws.

So, while the combat system is quite broken, still it's much better than previous instakills and all-owning wrestlers, so I am pretty happy with it. Now you don't need 1:6 melee damage orcs to solve some difficulty problem.

However orcs as castes of goblin civ/another race are still viable for modding. Why not?

[CaptApollo12]

Screw that I want Orcs sieging me from the front and demons from the bottom
I had no clue how to mod in civs in 40d and so im completley lost now.

[Martin]

DF2010 so does not need Orcs.

EVERYTHING needs orcs.

But yeah, let's get the combat unbugged and the crashy bits taken care of before cranking the difficulty to 11. Though, on that day, I second the vote for vote surface (uruk-hai) and subterranean (standard) orcs, with appropriate differences in toughness, damage, and equipment, as well as mounts and pets and whatnot. Lordy, am I excited about the possibilities of this version.

I wonder if we can make a workshop that creates uruk-hai from mud and slime and junk?

[Neruz]

Technically the surface Orcs should be weaker than the UG ones, since that's how DF's balance goes; the deeper you dig, the more dangerous shit gets.

[arghy]

I think the UG orcs should be in a state of constant ambush so you wont see them till their right on you. Its a damn shame you cant make them have underground orc fortresses but if you make them like the animal people but breed 10x faster so their not a civ but rather just critters so they can siege you from underground. Imagine you've secured your cavern systems and feel pretty secure with a strong dwarf army then all of the sudden you notice a sudden drop of FPS but cant see anything--your scanning the surface waiting then all of the sudden you see the message 'urist cancels task interrupted by orc' and watch as 30 orcs come out of ambush in your cavern system. Throw in special large orcs that cant wield weapons but can destroy buildings so they'll rip doors off their hinges to get to the juicy dwarves behind them.


Dear god SKAVEN CAN WE ADD THEM TO? there is no safety in the earth there is only death!

[Zangi]

The biggest problem is that the chance of UG Orcs being where you embark is... low.
The good news is you can make like +10 different breeds of UG Orcs...  You may get more then 1 type of UG Orcs in a single location.
The bad news is that some of these UG Orcs may be friendly and on your side.

Well, I do have my own working version of Orcs... but they are sissies compared to this mods' Orcs, but still a little bit stronger then the other races.

[Neruz]

Honestly, the animalpeople riding giant bats and giant cave swallows, flying around bombarding my dwarves with posioned darts and launching aireal assaults provide move than enough challenge.

When i've finally got everyone kitted out in full plate and killed off that Cave Dragon, it's just time to dig a little deeper and hunt for fun.


Now fun, let me tell you, does not need more difficulty. If you think the game is too easy at the moment, just dig down to find some fun.

Or an Undead Fortress; found one of those, FUN.

[Lofn]

Dear god SKAVEN CAN WE ADD THEM TO? there is no safety in the earth there is only death!

I've got the working bones of a skaven mod on the boil.  Should I post it?  It's not finished yet but it adds the greater clans and warpstone to a certain extent.

[arghy]

Well if it works and allows ratkin to siege me in great numbers with rat orges and plague bearers then hell yes i would totally use that mod. How would you make warpstone work? i could see it as an awesome trigger for sieges like you uncover a large cluster then they begin to siege you.

Animal people arent enough esp when they come in small numbers and dont come back when slaughtered. We need a large variety of enemys so instead of having just a single siege a year you have near constant sieges as your enemys queue up to destroy your fort. If you play right and dont use traps only dwarf military then you'll have epic tales in no time.

[warlordzephyr]

WOO! Time for my massive knowledge of Tolkien's world of Arda (which middle earth is in) to be usefull! The Orcs where created by Melkor (of whom sauron was luitenant) by toururing elves and generally making them evil. When Melkor was defeated the Orcs where imprisoned underground. So basically it would be excellent with the new caverns system to make the Orcs a mostly underground race, also it would make sense for some to be friendly to you cos you freed them.

[arghy]

I dont think you can make civs live underground but then again i remember something about animal people villages--multiply that by 60 and change them to orcs.

[Neruz]

I dont think you can make civs live underground but then again i remember something about animal people villages--multiply that by 60 and change them to orcs.

The Animalman 'villages' are already full civilisations, they even send invaders into your fort via the map-edge caverns.

[arghy]

Oh dear god DEAR GOD YES

Multiple UG orcs as well as day orcs on the surface--get rich then huddle behind your walls as the horrors assail your fortress.