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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3691118 times)

Scarpa

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3285 on: July 28, 2009, 11:52:34 am »

Guys, this is the thread for talking about the devlog and upcoming updates.  Please take this long winded discussion of Dune elsewhere.

Hey, I thought long-winded discourses on Dune are welcome anywhere! It beats discussions on the heat in the PNW at least.

On topic attempt:
What is the plan for stabilizing/freezing development on the d# branch prior to release? Now that the OpenGL stuff is solid it appears to be venturing into 'experimental' development. Are there hard goals for this particular branch?
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LegacyCWAL

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3286 on: July 28, 2009, 12:53:54 pm »

Queshun: Regarding ordering the fortress guard around, how about giving "guard this dwarf" orders? You could possibly asign guards (much like wardogs) to certain dwarves to keep them safe OR to keep them in check when they're about to tantrum. It'd be convenient in those times you send your masons out to build bridges over the chasms and they keep cancelling their tasks due to chasm creatures scaring them away.

Also, magic cure for internal heat: Iced pineapple slices.

I thought that ridding outdoor areas of hostiles was the military's job.
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Zironic

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3287 on: July 28, 2009, 12:55:42 pm »

Toady, be glad you don't live in the desert, it can get 120+ there in the summer, and believe me, it feels like a blast furnace when you're outside. My aunt lives in Phoenix, Arizona and I'm from San Diego California myself.

It can and does get into the 100s during the middle of the day there in the summer, most of the time it's in the 90's. We do have the ocean breeze that comes inland that cools things off in the afternoon/evening.

I like the 100+ when its a dry heat. I actually enjoy it. But humid heat - aggghhhh.
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Eduren

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3288 on: July 28, 2009, 02:14:05 pm »

Queshun: Regarding ordering the fortress guard around, how about giving "guard this dwarf" orders? You could possibly asign guards (much like wardogs) to certain dwarves to keep them safe OR to keep them in check when they're about to tantrum. It'd be convenient in those times you send your masons out to build bridges over the chasms and they keep cancelling their tasks due to chasm creatures scaring them away.

Also, magic cure for internal heat: Iced pineapple slices.

I thought that ridding outdoor areas of hostiles was the military's job.

It does seem like something the guard should be able to take care of as well.


Are there plans to change booze production to need a water source?
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Im_Sparks

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3289 on: July 28, 2009, 02:40:02 pm »

Queshun: Regarding ordering the fortress guard around, how about giving "guard this dwarf" orders? You could possibly asign guards (much like wardogs) to certain dwarves to keep them safe OR to keep them in check when they're about to tantrum. It'd be convenient in those times you send your masons out to build bridges over the chasms and they keep cancelling their tasks due to chasm creatures scaring them away.

Also, magic cure for internal heat: Iced pineapple slices.

I thought that ridding outdoor areas of hostiles was the military's job.

It does seem like something the guard should be able to take care of as well.


Are there plans to change booze production to need a water source?

Yes. Yes there are. Also, a guard order would be hella useful.
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Dakk

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3290 on: July 28, 2009, 03:33:33 pm »

Queshun: Regarding ordering the fortress guard around, how about giving "guard this dwarf" orders? You could possibly asign guards (much like wardogs) to certain dwarves to keep them safe OR to keep them in check when they're about to tantrum. It'd be convenient in those times you send your masons out to build bridges over the chasms and they keep cancelling their tasks due to chasm creatures scaring them away.

Also, magic cure for internal heat: Iced pineapple slices.

I thought that ridding outdoor areas of hostiles was the military's job.

It does seem like something the guard should be able to take care of as well.


Are there plans to change booze production to need a water source?

That plus the fact the military will have other, far more interesting tasks once the caravan and army arc are in. Which isn't in this release unfortunely  :'(
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3291 on: July 28, 2009, 03:46:13 pm »

Are there plans to change booze production to need a water source?

Yes. Yes there are.

I think there are, too, but I couldn't dig up anything on it.
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3292 on: July 28, 2009, 03:56:16 pm »

Quote from: various
heat stuff

Yeah, many homes here are air-conditioned, and maybe some of the new apartments, but this is a pretty old place and just has heaters.  It's not so much the numeric temperature.  I used to walk to the university in Texas through 100F+ for over an hour, and when I was growing up in California it got up to 114F, and I've been out in Death Valley.  That's all a nice bake, and it's only hovering around 90F here, but it feels way worse than any of that.  My current weather reminds me more of the 100% humidity New Hampshire summers, which were icky bad, though the humidity is only up to 40% here and it still feels more horrible.  I guess the lack of air movement or maybe just this apartment has something to do with it, because yesterday was the worst pretty much any time ever for me.  Never had a cat panting before, he he he...  well, not without really playing hard with the chase toys for a long time.

It also sucks because it hardly cools down at night -- at 1AM it was still 75F last night, which is great by itself, but it's high enough to keep the apartment hot and stuffy.  Today is supposed to be the same, though it's just ramping up to it now, so I can still think clearly, sort of.  Mr. Scamps is panting again though...  such a depressing sight.  Zach is gonna have me out of here in a few hours I think.

Quote from: Dwarfu
Will the 'run to the safety burrow' affect visiting friendlies?

Nope.  I'm not sure how I want to handle them.  They aren't yours, so any order should qualify as an advisory at most, unless you are actually taking them prisoner, especially if there are no obvious threats.  Being able to move non-dwarves to whatever death chamber you want is too much control, though clearly there are always work-arounds anyway.

Quote from: Neonivek
Toady will there ever be some sort of mark that indicates that a martial art style; if it be a main style, a branch, or subset; is complete or complete as far as your skill is concerned? Will you ever be able to go back to an old "I don't know squat" style and fix it up?

Complete?  I don't understand.  I've never met a serious martial arts person that thought they were done with anything.  Do you mean applying new knowledge from new styles to moves that you learned before in old styles?  Or something about style construction?

Quote from: Neonivek
As for toys, will they ever be character building devices? When you look at many toys now adays, or even back then, you see a lot of them seem to be built around the idea of child placement. So will a Child who plays with his Wooden animal end up liking that specific animal? Will a Child who plays with his miniforge-easybake-oven become a Foodsmith?

There was some talk about developing child personalities from a fairly blank template, and I think that's a fair suggestion to be included there.  Although my dad did try to have me play with some things that I ignored, so I guess there's a bit of back and forth there as the child develops.

Quote from: LordNagash
I have a question that has already been sort of raised - how much injury is it going to take to stop a dwarf from being able to teach things? I mean if my legendary axedwarf manages to lose both his arms (in seperate incidents I guess, or he'd be dead) he should still be able to teach people how to use an axe, although not as well as before.

Also, will the teachers be teaching shield use and armour use as well?

They don't care about injuries much at all right now.  If the injury actually lowers their effective skill level, it'll also affect their teaching.  I still haven't sorted all the equipment issues, but it's possibly they might not be able to teach axe without the proper equipment availability (including their ability to carry it).

They can currently teach weapon skills, wrestling, dodging, punching (grasp strikes), kicking (stance strikes), shield and armor use, yeah.  They can also teach general close-quarters/ranged combat principles.  They won't actually teach kicking though, since it's not a primary attack for dwarves -- biting is the same way.  If you have a mod where biting is the primary attack, they'll teach biting instead.  If you have multiple primary attacks, they'll teach all of the relevant skills.  I think if a tantrumer learns throwing, they'll also start teaching the dwarves that, he he he.  The examples throwers give in class based on their wealth of experience must be pretty funny.

Quote from: Footkerchief
Next version question: with the new contaminant system, will water flows (and magma, I guess) be capable of washing away contaminants from creatures and items?  Currently they just deposit an additional covering.

The actual contaminants-on-units system didn't change that much, so I don't think anything has changed there yet.

Quote from: Scarpa
What is the plan for stabilizing/freezing development on the d# branch prior to release? Now that the OpenGL stuff is solid it appears to be venturing into 'experimental' development. Are there hard goals for this particular branch?

I haven't gotten a chance to look at d14 yet, but the input was still a bit wonky, and there were some other actual problems.  Those are the issues for me.  I've asked people to clear any additional projects with me.  As long as it works, I don't think it needs anything else, but if there are some other things to be worked on, as long as they work, it doesn't matter so much, since I won't have the main branch ready for merging for a while yet.

Quote from: eduren
Are there plans to change booze production to need a water source?

Yeah, I don't remember if this is up on dev or just something that has come up before.  It's kind of in the same category of making pets eat again.  It needs some peripheral work to make it feasible.  In this case, I'm just a little worried most about having more ways to get water, especially on maps where there would be some reasonable ways to get water that you can't exploit (ice/rain/etc.), and booze is currently your only anti-thirst measure, as wrong as that is.  Ideally, yeah, you'd want them to use some water.
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Appelgren

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3293 on: July 28, 2009, 03:56:25 pm »

Toady, be glad you don't live in the desert, it can get 120+ there in the summer, and believe me, it feels like a blast furnace when you're outside. My aunt lives in Phoenix, Arizona and I'm from San Diego California myself.

It can and does get into the 100s during the middle of the day there in the summer, most of the time it's in the 90's. We do have the ocean breeze that comes inland that cools things off in the afternoon/evening.

You know, when I first read this I thought it was totally bizarre and impossible - until I remembered you use Fahrenheit. 120 Celsius is somewhere around 250 Fahrenheit so my first thoughts were along the lines of: "Like a blast furnace.. no kidding huh?".

edit: And wow! Another giant wall of answers! Sweet!
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 04:01:33 pm by Appelgren »
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RadonPlasma

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3294 on: July 28, 2009, 05:26:53 pm »

Nope.  I'm not sure how I want to handle them.  They aren't yours, so any order should qualify as an advisory at most, unless you are actually taking them prisoner, especially if there are no obvious threats.  Being able to move non-dwarves to whatever death chamber you want is too much control, though clearly there are always work-arounds anyway.

Hm.  I think 'advisory' is probably the key word here.  One possible solution is to have whoever the friendlies are meeting with give them advice on the layout of the fortress.  The visitors could then base their next move on this knowledge.

Ugh...  That took way too long to type.  I should wait until I'm not sleepy to give suggestions.
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jamoecw

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3295 on: July 28, 2009, 05:30:58 pm »

Quote from: various
heat stuff

Yeah, many homes here are air-conditioned, and maybe some of the new apartments, but this is a pretty old place and just has heaters.  It's not so much the numeric temperature.  I used to walk to the university in Texas through 100F+ for over an hour, and when I was growing up in California it got up to 114F, and I've been out in Death Valley.  That's all a nice bake, and it's only hovering around 90F here, but it feels way worse than any of that.  My current weather reminds me more of the 100% humidity New Hampshire summers, which were icky bad, though the humidity is only up to 40% here and it still feels more horrible.  I guess the lack of air movement or maybe just this apartment has something to do with it, because yesterday was the worst pretty much any time ever for me.  Never had a cat panting before, he he he...  well, not without really playing hard with the chase toys for a long time.

It also sucks because it hardly cools down at night -- at 1AM it was still 75F last night, which is great by itself, but it's high enough to keep the apartment hot and stuffy.  Today is supposed to be the same, though it's just ramping up to it now, so I can still think clearly, sort of.  Mr. Scamps is panting again though...  such a depressing sight.  Zach is gonna have me out of here in a few hours I think.

i find that hot nights tend to make it harder to be comfortable in the heat during the day, in deserts the heat doesn't bother me hardly at all, but when summer comes and we get hot nights and don't use the A/C then i feel hotter during the day.  also don't forget the trick of putting wet towels in the path of the fan, water evaporation can help cool the air quite well.

Quote from: eduren
Are there plans to change booze production to need a water source?

Yeah, I don't remember if this is up on dev or just something that has come up before.  It's kind of in the same category of making pets eat again.  It needs some peripheral work to make it feasible.  In this case, I'm just a little worried most about having more ways to get water, especially on maps where there would be some reasonable ways to get water that you can't exploit (ice/rain/etc.), and booze is currently your only anti-thirst measure, as wrong as that is.  Ideally, yeah, you'd want them to use some water.

considering that extracting water from plants is a fairly old trick i don't see why booze needs water to brew.  using the stills to get water from the juices, then using that water to brew from other juices should work (not too efficient, but if need be).  you could always make it so that you need water to brew, but you can extract water from plants at a still.
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Simmura McCrea

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3296 on: July 28, 2009, 05:34:02 pm »

Extraction of water from plants could also be useful for saving injured dwarves on maps with no water supply.
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3297 on: July 28, 2009, 05:51:13 pm »

Water from plants is a good idea, but you can't really get enough moisture out of wheat (or most other plants) to make actual liquid booze with it.

Obviously this could work with some high-moisture fruit, but that's basically it. You're not going to squeeze a lot of water out of potatoes, wheat, vines, or a lot of the other things you'd be brewing. And even in the cases where you can, water might wind up getting used anyway.
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LegacyCWAL

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3298 on: July 28, 2009, 06:02:49 pm »

My heart goes out to you, Toady.  I've had to go without AC in the summer a few times, and I have no idea how you keep from keeling over dead if you have to live through that continuously.  Having to do it year after year would make me move back to North Dakota :P


Incidentally, Bismarck is a surprisingly nice place to live, if you want to go somewhere cooler.  No pollution, virtually zero crime rate, and being the state capital means that it has the restaurants and theaters and whatnot of a city several times its size.  The winters are a bitch though.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 06:09:15 pm by LegacyCWAL »
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3299 on: July 28, 2009, 06:13:47 pm »

Toady, be glad you don't live in the desert, it can get 120+ there in the summer, and believe me, it feels like a blast furnace when you're outside. My aunt lives in Phoenix, Arizona and I'm from San Diego California myself.

It can and does get into the 100s during the middle of the day there in the summer, most of the time it's in the 90's. We do have the ocean breeze that comes inland that cools things off in the afternoon/evening.

You know, when I first read this I thought it was totally bizarre and impossible - until I remembered you use Fahrenheit. 120 Celsius is somewhere around 250 Fahrenheit so my first thoughts were along the lines of: "Like a blast furnace.. no kidding huh?".

edit: And wow! Another giant wall of answers! Sweet!

Well, walking from a cool AC'd building into the desert heat certainly feels like a blast furnace. I've never actually been in a blast furnace smelter area or whatever. It's because it's such a dry heat.

Oh yea, are we going to be able to make soldiers carry booze instead of water in this release and what about giving the injured booze instead of water?
I think I heard about the second bit somewhere.
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