Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Ampersand]

Sounds like Dwarf Fortress meets The Sims with a first person component added to it. I've already suggested such a thing in a thread last year I think, commenting that the Roguelike Genre, due to it's non-graphical nature, allows for many more abstractions and interactions between in-game objects, and is therefore much more apt to be used in simulation type games.

A SimsRogue may be a game that I'm willing to play, provided the behaviors and interactions are both complex and viewable in some way, like Adventure Mode combat reports.

But the Gary's Mod style type thing that the OP suggested... Well, it seems like it would be far shallower, to me.

[PTTG??]

  Perhaps we are going in the wrong direction. Garry's Mod would not be the basis or the main element of the program. I just brought it up to explain the basic idea; all I'd take would be the feeling of physics and construction, not the rocket car or blank canvas tropes.
  Are you familiar with the Creatures series? These "living" beings (I use the word loosely, as technically speaking the creatures are far simpler than alge; on the other hand, they are also far more complex than any other software characters.) are the real drive of the game; as ampersand said, it's somewhat like Sims in the sense of taking care of these beings, and the fact that you can say you want to keep them happy to win.
  A major difference from Sims would be the fact that these creatures aren't just AI, but actual neurological simulations- something coming from the original Creatures games of '96. You have no control over these creatures than you do over, say, your own pets.
  Just to make a point clear that otherwise is cloudy, though the structural complexity of the creatueres is low, below most plants, the neurological structure is much more complex; they are able to learn to speak and learn complex behavior patterns, even though they are effectively one cell in terms of biochemistry. There are a number of shortcuts made, particularly short-term pathing; other shortcuts include the fact that picking up an object is a one-signal command from the brain, as opposed to the entire network of feedback involved with a human picking up an object.

I do apreicate the feedback- It is helpful to refine my idea with what you say.

[Ampersand]

I still think that the game would probably be better in the roguelike format simply because I think no animations are better than bad ones, and when interactions between actors and objects get complex, animation usually gets generalized, like in the Sims, where an actor would reach toward an object and have it magically teleport into it's hands. Might not reach as wide an audience, but it's just my personal preference.

[Neonivek]

I owned Creatures 3 and loved that game. Unfortunately someone stole my disk while I was at school (I pretty much know who likely did it. That guy was a Kleptomaniac and stole a lot of my stuff)

Though you could end up unlocking the ability to lift your creatures (which was helpful because they could sure act dumb and eject themselves out of airlocks, dive into the ocean, or hang out in the disease ridden jungle) you could also lure them with smell generators, objects, and other techniques.

Ohh creatures 3 I miss you... WHY!!!

[PTTG??]

I have the CD around here  somewhere... Also there's the Docking Station program; that's free. There's a Creatures 1 for DS mod, too. DS apparently connects to C3, too.

[Rhodan]

Rant about Creatures:
Creatures would have benefited from a bit more hardcoded restraints in the genetics.  Allowing stuff like "1 Air = 100 Air & 100 Energy" made it way too easy to make have immortal creatures pop up.  Forcing the chemistry to follow 1+1=2 logics and hardcoding the energy and nutrient requirements for motion, growth and breeding would have made them far more interesting.
And even though emotions are indeed chemicals, they're too complex to simulate along with the other biochemistry of Norns, they should've been pure neurologic features.

What made Creatures fun was setting your own goals, trying stuff just to see what happens.  I loved attempting stuff like breeding Norns in the tiniest space possible to see if they'd even get used to being crowded, or trying to maintain waterbreathing populations.
My favourite was this combination of agents that teleported all eggs to the start of an obstacle course, so only the creatures that managed to make it to the end before starving could procreate.  I ended up with Norns that turned air into food and just stayed put at the starting area.  Heck, even their respiratory system had this gene that said "If you're in a room with air, take in these chemicals every so often as long as you still have lungs."  One simple checkbox reversed this and made Norns aquatic or amphibious, or they could just mutate to begin breathing pure fat out of thin air.

Relevant bit:
Anyways, if you want the game to be interesting, you need a pre-evolved basic creature.  But I'm not sure how one would allow these creatures to adapt to their environment.  Say you want them to adapt to toxic food.  Would their "poison resistance" stat mutate and get higher?  Would they just gain a mutated gene that turns poison into rainbow kittens?  Would they already have a complex series of genes that handles poison and improve on this by evolution?
The latter seems best, but would require a complex chemistry model to make it interesting.  Just "Poison => Kitten" won't work.  There's just so much to take into account.
Perhaps this is why most evolution software, like Genepool or Framsticks, focuses on the neural net and morphology.  But these still take ages to evolve something useful even on the most powerful computers, at high-speed.   And you won't have awesome stuff like your creatures adapting to eat meat or holding their breath for ages.
So how do you imagine the underlying evolution system?  I'm curious since everything else has been done in some way, but the evolving bit is still something that never really made it into reality.

Rambling about how virtual genetics could work:
Looking at my Rubik's cube, I think having each chemical being a molecule that can be pieced together from other molecules, and genes being the instructions for this piecing, would work.  With a system like this, molecules go in via air and food, and get pieced into energy and bone/muscle/whatever mass.  Organs would be collections of instructions and molecule containers which get triggered by the brain.  The stomach, for example, would receive all food and have instructions to break it down and send it to the blood stream.  Waste (old, unused molecules) gets dumped.  Mutations would likely cause more waste since they'd break down useful molecules the wrong way.  But this new waste might turn out to be useful for the spleen to make more of whatever the spleen makes.  All organs would just pick their molecules from the bloodstream, decided by the brain which organs needs most at any moment.
Toxins would be molecules that turn into bad molecules when broken down the wrong way.  With enough mutation, any molecule could get broken down or assembled into a bad molecule.  Bad molecules are bad because they might turn other molecules into useless molecules, causing shortages in nutrients or tissue and all that.
To make babies, the uterus would just collect enough tissue and startup chemicals to create a new child.   Mating should probably be abstracted to just some kissing or lovemaking without exchange of fluids.  Too complex.
There's probably a few gaps in here, like what molecules would look like and how the instructions would work.  Maybe an abstracted version of the Codex of Alchemical Engineering? http://jayisgames.com/archives/2008/12/the_codex_of_alchemical_engineering.php

[PTTG??]

I like where you're going with this, Rhodan. We could make each organ have a virtual "cell" or two that does the low-level chemical processes.

In fact, the issue that may be the greatest obstacle will be pathing; creating a neural net simple enough to run, and complex enough to figure out that it might need to use an elevator, while being realistic enough so that they don't follow DF-like perfect paths. Something where one might get lost or so on.

Also, world Cellular Autonoma; Creatures used a limited one, I'd like to see a CA with a size arround a square yard and 1.5 yards tall; then I'd like to make it sensitive enough so that a forest canopy will diffuse rain below it and so on.

Edit: looking at that game, I wanted to say I like the idea of players being able to extract and manipulate chemicals on small and large scales; everything from extracting Gyroclicine Tetraline from Teratoxleose using a centrifuge and a nanopipette, to finding the right kind of herb and boiling it into a tea.

[Virex]

There is definitly a major gap in there. You're ignoring energy. What I mean by this si that you can't just take CO2 and water and end up with sugar, because there's more energy contained in sugar then there's in water and CO2. Basicly, any conversion either costs or releases energy, and this should also be incorperated in the system that models biochemistry. It can be done realy easely if you've got a defined set of chemicals, becuase then you can assing each compound an energy level and calculate the energy needed/released from the differences in energy levels. If you'd like to proceduraly generate the different compounds then you'll need to make some rules regarding the energy levels of compounds. A simple start would be setting the energies ascosiated with different bonds and then setting the energy level of a compound to the sum of the bond energies or something like that (of course most bond energies should be negative or else everything will be broken down into atoms...)

[PTTG??]

  To change the topic from chemical biology, how about this; instead of having an ecology made up of many independent agents, have a large-scale 3D Cellular Autonama that not only keeps track of temperature, sunlight, rainfall, odors, soil nutrients and so on, but also tracks the growth of plants; a 1yrd x 1yrd square area could have a certain amount of grass, an amount of tree growth and so on. When you visit an area, it procedurally generates the position of brush and trees in an area, and you can harvest plants from this area as if they where agents. If the seed number for each square was permanent, then it will even be the same every time you visit. (i.e., trees won't move and cause problems like having a tree house's main support tree vanishing next time you visit.)

Going back to the biochemistry, if the CA made sure that it's chemical energy output didn't exceed the solar energy constant, there you go.
  How about this; all items have a size and a represenitive molecule or collection. Carrots consist of several different molecules in various proportions, while a glass of well water may be mainly water with a chance of contaminants. Viruses may be molecules in this case.
Creatures (and animals, which are much simpler simulated beings) can bite items and (assuming they have jaw strength and teeth to do so) eat a unit of it, decreasing the size of the item and all the implied results. Normal creatures will have no trouble eating carrots. A mutant creature or perhaps a dangerous animal will be able to eat your flashlight, and a stupid creature will try to eat a beach ball or a toadbear.
  These tie together, as Creatures and Animals can now wander the wilds, with a hard limit on the amount of life being the solar constant plus any artifical energy producers you may build.

[Sowelu]

*twitch, wibble*

I've done square-by-square procedurally generated landscapes/plants before, and they aren't any fun.  Mostly because A) they can't be changed, and B) they are always unaware of their neighbors, even neighbors three feet away, which means vast trees right next to each other, or rivers that come from nowhere and go nowhere.

If you actually want to use cellular automata, then you can't use locationally-seeded procedurally generated stuff, because data gets lost. over time.

[PTTG??]

I mean that the overall structure is determined by the CA, and then the position of trees, grass, and plants within each tile is determined by a seeded random number generator. It's the best of both worlds; the permanent rational structure of the landscape, and the efficient saving of locations of the fine details from procedural placement. Add in a way to account for specific player actions, like cutting down a specific tree in a tile (for instance, have each tile's simulation have a "tree number stat" integer and keep logging abstract- "you cut down three trees" instead of attacking an individual trunk with an axe) or something, and you have what looks like agent-based simulation at a fraction of the cost.

Then you make the CA have a flexible definition of a "tile" so that when players dig a small room, it's one whole tile, and a small shack built over the divider line won't turn the whole tile into an internal room.

The whole world structure might go something like this:

-World Model (a "height map" of some sort that gives terrain shape, plus internal caves and artificial structures, as well as all other notable items, including large natural things like ancient trees and anything else that might cause natural microclimates. Much of the terrain is fractal-ly and procedurally generated, but it is stored conventionally.)

-CA (Derived from the World Model, a set of arbitrarily-shaped tiles with borders of various porousness; the default may be a 1yrd x 1yd x 3 yrd room, a cell or two above this for the atmosphere, and a cell or two below for ground area. The status of each cell is deterministic, and stored conventionally.)

-Cell Contents (Derived procedurally based on cell statistics; these are inconciquencial plants, insects, and rocks. Each individual species of plant can have a separate number of seeds, plants, and maturity. Each insect species can have these numbers as well. Harvesting, killing, pruning and so on decrease the population density and maturity, effecting lasting changes. Note that a specific quantity of energy is represented by these numbers. Growth of plants requires the presence of nutrients, bacteria, sunlight and moisture in the CA stats for the cells. (A cell may have hundreds if not thousands of values by the time we're done.) Something not defined yet are the important cell barriers- like in the original creatures, these change the ability of cell stats to flow. Everything that can be defined as a transition- steel sheet, open air (from two adjacent cells in the grassland, for instance), soil-to-air transition, wooden dividers, tree canopies, and so on, has a definition on it's ability to allow any cell value to propegate. Finaly, weather effects such as windyness, rainfall, thunder sounds, snowfall, ect, is displayed based on what the level of the effect is in that cell- thus leading to emergent effects, like trees diverting snow and rain, or even something as simple as a roof and walls keeping wind "outside".)

-Actors or agents (creatures, animals and all "items"- for instance, a beach ball, a picked carrot, a rock, a pile of lumber, a cart which contains a small cell- the covered back. These can interact with both of the other sections- they can change the world model by building and digging, they can change cell boundries (potentially via the world model), and they can change cell values- for instace, a fireplace that increases warmth or a Creature that picks a plant. The Player Charicter most likely falls in this category, and flags will either prevent them from getting killed or allow them to "emergency teletransport" home.)

These above are design documents protected by copyright, I've decided just now.

And yes, that CA thing is in the top 300 longest parenthetical statements.

[Virex]

*twitch, wibble*

I've done square-by-square procedurally generated landscapes/plants before, and they aren't any fun.  Mostly because A) they can't be changed, and B) they are always unaware of their neighbors, even neighbors three feet away, which means vast trees right next to each other, or rivers that come from nowhere and go nowhere.

If you actually want to use cellular automata, then you can't use locationally-seeded procedurally generated stuff, because data gets lost. over time.

You can fix B by having the automatoi relay their data to all squares in a certain area. You´re essentialy using the squares themselves as containers for the data instead of having the automatoi pull their data from their neighbors.

To illustrate: Take the game of life. Now instead of having the automatoi die when they have a certain amount of neighbors, have them die when the toxicity level of the square they're on is over a certain value. Now, each generation you first have all automatoi adjust the toxicity level of the squares around them by a value dependant on the distance, and then you do the normal pass.

This way you can store data like light intensity, humidity and toxicity in the map rather then on the automatoi, avoiding the problem of having mile-high trees grow next to eachother.

[PTTG??]

Consider this the equivalent of a Three Toe story for this game:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

138.01.01: I've arrived; it's early afternoon and the weather is partly cloudy and cold. After a brief new years celebration, I'll set to work on settling in.

138.01.02: A little about this area, before I note down my plans. I selected the area partially for the climate and partially because there's some evidence of artifacts, though I haven't seen any yet.
The main island is roughly linear, with several protursions and coves. It runs NW to SE. There is a gulf on the SE facing coast, and I have settled near the center of this area. Running down the center line of the island is the highlands.
Climate wise, this area is mixed. Generally, it is colder to the north and dryer to the east. The NE island (the second largest landmass) is a dry, temporate area. The SE peninsula is dry and hot, the SW area, from somewhere inland into a number of small islands, is warm and swampy. The norther extension of the island is quite cool, with a small group of cool, marshy islands. The central area is comfortable, though divided by the rocky higlands. This includes much of the island, and blends into the surrounding climate.
My site is roughly centered on the island, on the western side of the highlands and while not close to the shore, within easy travel distance. In particular, I'm partway down a valley wall; the ridge above climbs all the way up into the highlands. There is a river in the channel below, and this is semirough. Not easily navigable. There is something of a niche in the valley wall, and that's where I am. The river is about a hundred feet down from here, and the ridge is roughly another hundred up. It's just passable both ways, but difficult.
The climate in our valley is, as I've said,  rainy and temporate. I expect plenty of snow in the winter- in fact we may get some before the end of spring, yet- but summer will be warm. The trees here are mixed, with mainly conifers but some others. The smaller plants include are large, tough bushy plant that covers much of the ground, an invasive thorny vine, and light grass over much of the open area, but lower under the heavy tree cover. There are also a wide variety of less prominent species that may be more directly useful.
Now, let's go over what I have with me:
-5 Eggs in storage case.
    -2 male, Tarnal breed
    -3 female, two Tarnal breed, one Thunderbird.
-2 Robots + some spares (built from segments, sometimes parts get broken, esp. arms.)
    -2 Mk2 Robot Chassis
    -3 Mk1 Robot Arms (Claw)
    -2 MK1 Robot Arms (Tool)
    -5 Mk1 Robot Legs
    -2 Mk2 Robot Heads (AI License #B137-179M-25470PJKPS-179, and AI #B137-220C-49796IGK-220)
    -3 Mk1 Robot Power Cores
-1 Power Core Charger (uses other power sources to charge robots)
-1 General Tool Kit Mk1 (A simple but powerful set of tools. This was free!)
-1 Water Purifier
-1 Portable Heater
-1 Set Prefab Panels
-2 Solar Packs (some solar-charging batteries for other equipemnt.)
-6 General Medical Packs (just bandages and a few medicines. Also a general Antivenom.)
-1 Medi Scanner Mk1
-3 Toys (Ball, Drum, Top. Keeps creatures occupied.)
-1 Set Remote Communicators (only works on island-scale ranges.)
-1 Long-Range Radio (For calling home. Free!)
-1 Incubator Mk1 (It's possible to let eggs hatch in a merely warm environment, but this is somewhat safer.)
-1 Survival Kit (General stuff to stay alive in weather.
-3 1wk Food Packs. (A set of mixed food in a small crate, enough to last a creaure 1 week. I figure best to have it.)
-1 Stunner Pistol Mk1 (Doesn't harm most animals or creatures, but hurts them and may stun them for a few moments. Enough to send attackers a strong message.)
-3 Ammo Cell (rapid-discharge batteries for Pistol about a dozen shots each)
-Seeds (mixed, but a lot of convential plants and a few "starters" such as potatoes thrown in. I know there are tomatoes, strawberries, potatoes, apples, and cabbage, and a few more.)

All of that contained in two crates.

I've spent today unpacking the equipment and setting up the prefab shelter- really it's not much more than a simple roof and hangin walls, but it provides some protection. I also assembled one of the droids and set it to clear a path to the river, and the other to prepare the rest of the clearing for work.
I've spent today unpacking the equipment and setting up the prefab shelter- really it's not much more than a simple roof and hangin walls, but it provides some protection. I also assembled one of the droids and set it to clear a path to the river, and the other to prepare the rest of the clearing for work.

138.01.03: By this morning, the droid had cleared a good ways down to the river already. The path winds back and forth a few times and has a few staircases, so it shouldn't be very difficult to make a trip for water and back. Combining the cut brush from that path with what the other one had collected from around the clearing, we have a nice little stockpile of lumber and firewood. I've decided that I'll have a partialy underground, partially surface dwelling here. I've set the Droid up here, PJKPS-179 (PJ), to start digging and reinforcing the tunnel, while IGK-220 (Iggy) continues the path down. I'm putting up a workshop up here that will be a little stabler than the prefab.

138.01.04: So far most of the floor is in place for the workshop. The river path is complete and the two droids are working on the tunnel; naturally this is much slower than making the path was. I walked down the path; it's a nice hike, and still a little rough, but good. The river is already clear- there's even fish in it, which will provide good food for the creatures.
That reminds me; I've realized we're going to need some sort of plant food source other than scavanging, so I've taken a part of the clearing and set it to be cleared and made into a small garden once I've gotten the workshop finished.
The local fauna has been quiet, but over the past few days I've seen a few animals. This area being rather wild, the animals do not seem to fear myself or the droids very much. This may be unfortunate, as not only are there some large grazing animals that may attack the garden, but some kind of marsupial that has actually entered our camp and was trying to break into the food crate. With this much life, there's probably a healthy population of predators, too. I'll keep an eye out.

138.01.05: Workshop nearly done- and good, too, as it's quite cold out here in the prefab. The modestly warm spell of the last few days has vanished and the cloud cover has grown thicker. The Droids have dug most of the first chamber out, but it will take more time before it's habitable there. Unfortunately, with the reinforcements for the den and the structure for the workshop, we're running low on timber. I'll send PJ to start that.
Heh! I went to get it. The machines look like animate dirt clods out in the light.
The Workshop has a feildstone foundation and floor. I have most of the walls up, but I've had to stop to collect more wood. I've tried to avoid simply clearing and am instead thinning. This has taken me deeper into the forest around here and I'm looking forward to getting a secure area so that I can do some exploring. It is possible to see the sea to the west from most high ground, so I may set out to reach that- but before I go off on a tangient, I've also found a few native plants that I've taken back to collect seeds from; I'd rather grow local plants than some of the more conventional ones.

138.01.06: Spent all day collecting more lumber, and looks like enough for finishing workshop. PJ still collecting. Checked Iggy, work still slow, soil is rocky. Rocks may have metal content here, examing them later. Tired from woodcutting.

138.01.07: Well, one week in and things are looking pretty good. Started to rain today, which is worring because I don't have a system to keep the den dry. I've gotten on the LRR and ordered a few sets of pipes. I'll run a drain from the den out from a low point in the entry tunnel, and that should be sufficient for now. Delivery is inconsistent, but it should be here within a few days. I've got the Workshop nearly complete- the roof is watertight at least- and I'm putting in the rest. I've already taken all the tools and items in and taken down the prefab. Oh, the rock Iggy hit yesterday is actually an iron source! this is good, though it will slow digging more. Once I get a cruicible, I'll have a metal supply.
While I was ordering the pipes, I looked up the calender for this area; Each season has three months. Each month has three weeks; The middle of winter is the winter solstice. This gives 252 days a year, every year. This is a little different from the traditional system. There are still 12 months; However, they each have 21 days, and all equinoxes and solstices occor on the eleventh.
138.01.08: The Workshop is now complete. It went up quickly, and I'll admit that that was partly because of the droids, partly because it's rather crude in the first place.
Anyway, I still want to add a fireplace or stove to this so I can burn some of the scrap wood. The solar packs are already stretching the limited sunlight. Though rainy, the temperature has been rising again over the past few days. I suppose the month would be April on a traditional calinder, so we can at least expect it to get warmer soon.
138.01.09: I've been working mostly inside the workshops examining some of the local plants. This is what I've identified:
- An orange tapered root plant. Much like a carrot. A little bit more fibrus. I'll call it a karrot.
- A soft, white mushroom. Tests show it to be safe to eat. A Native Cap.
- Some kind of reed with a edible bulb and a white flower. The flower portion is not eddible, but contains a number of nutrients and minierals. Probably just needs to be cooked.
I've got both robots working in the den now. The rain didn't seem to cause too much trouble, but there was some more moisture inside the first few feet of the tunnel then ther should be. I've decided to floor the area with spare feildstone. Hmm... going to need permanent lights in there too. Well, the chamber I wanted in there is coming allong nicely and we can start on the surface building soon.

138.01.10: The pipes arrived and I was able to set up the drainage system. Working with PJ, I floored the tunnel up to what is now a storage area; The tunnel is about five feet wide and with the dip and curves, 25 feet long. The chamber itself is 8 feet by 10. It's eventually going to be a junction, and entranceway into the underground den. For now, it's storage. So far, it's just the iron ore that's there.
I have about enough in savings to order a few things I'll be needing to continue work. Let's see- a Cruicible, Tool Kit Mk2, Electronics Kit, a Mk1 Motor, some wheels, and annother set of droid parts will do it. Hmm... I'll also need power equipemnt. Let's say a hydroturbine and some more power cells. Let's see... Ah! That's it, a set of lights for the workshop and the den. I use this plumbing kit and the water purifier (and let's order a pump) and I can run water from the river up here too!. Ok, that's all I need.

138.01.11: I finally put up a fence and broke the ground for the garden. With that, I can get some plants growing.

128.01.12: I've started digging out the foundation for the house. The house will connect to the tunnel, and also go up at least over the canopy so that you can see the sea from the top. I'm going to do some scouting in this area to find a source of clay for bricks because the fieldstone is a little unstable.

138.01.13: I've left PJ to dig while Iggy and I go scouting. I went up to the ridge and walked inland to the east, while looking for a good clay deposit. About five miles out I found one. I'll admit that hauling bricks or raw clay that distance an armful at a time may be a little tough, even for a robot, so I've decided to wait until my most recent order arives and build a hauler. In the meantime, I'll set PJ to clear a road along the ridge.

138.01.14: Yep, that shipment should be here any day now...
Oh, and two weeks in!

138.01.15: Spent a bit of time clearing the area and cutting a few paths. Weather is occasional shower but mostly partly cloudy. PJ stopped in and I swapped his battery with the spare.

138.01.16: I've started to stockpile some good lumber for construction- to keep it dry, I'm adding a overhang on one side of rthe workshop. Say, I haven't really described the shop. It's 30 feet long and 15 wide, with simple doors on both ends. I'd like to add some windows, but I need new tools. I have a few benches on the long walls. It's rather simple, but it keeps tools safe from the animals.

138.01.17: Finaly! The shipment arrived. I've used some of the prefab parts to build a platform, and I've attached a bin and the motor and wheels. I put a control pannel up front and it looks, well, horibble, but it should work once I get it powered. Oh, and the new droid is #B137-207O-85839ZKBI-207... Let's go with Zeke.

138.01.18: I ran the pipe down to the river and set up a pumping station. With the Hydrogenerator in the water and connected to the power system, I can run power up to the workshop and stop running off of the solar packs.

138.01.19: The water now runs up and goes to the purifier and a spout by the workshop. I've set up some lamps in the shop as well. The crucible can also run off the hydro and I've made a few ingots that I should be able to make into a stove!

138.01.20: Today I finished the hauler and took it over to the clay deposit with Iggy. It's not a fast vehicle, but the road was easy enough to travel. I loaded it up and we traveled back down. I still need a kiln to make bricks, but that should be easy enough to do with the spare stones I have.

138.01.21: Glad I didn't unload the clay; I've decided it would be more efficient to make the bricks up by the deposit and drive them down afterwords. It's going to take a few more trips, but I unloaded the clay back uphill and set Zeke to clearing an area around the deposit. I've also brought up a load of rock to build the kiln with and we can fire it with scrap wood.

138.02.01: It's been a month! Wow! Well, of course months are shorter. Anyway it is the equivalent of March. The weather has been somewhat stormier than last month. The kiln is complete, and Zeke also colected some lumber good enought to use on the house or tower. I've swapped ZKBI for PJ for recharging and set PJ to fire some bricks up

138.02.02: While PJ continues to make bricks, I've assembled a woodstove from the iron ingots. There's still quite a bit left, so I made a fastening kit; hinges and stuff. I fitted the workshop with some real doors now, and I plan to make the hauler look a little better if we get any more ore.

138.02.03: It was a good day to start the plants today, so sowed the seeds I collected as well as some of the collected ones. There's starting to be a nice collection of bricks and a good stockpile of lumber, too. I've been having Zeke and Iggy collecting lumber for quite a while, and it looks like we'll be able to do some real construction here. I also ordered a droid charger.

138.02.04: I'm glad I ordered that charger rushed.
Anyway, the stove is ready to use now.

138.02.05: From up on the ridge, one can see all the way to the sea on this coast, though the rocky highlands to the east still hide the rest of the island. I can see the weather systems moving in... I'll have to set up some kind of radar up here.

138.02.06: The charger just got in, which is essential. Now the droids will be able to recharge themselves and operate more indipendantly. I've hooked it up to the hydrogenerator. Now, I've got plenty of supplies and the weather looks good. I'll assign the droids to start construction of the tower/home while I do some exploration. I think I'll follow the river to the sea and explore the costal area a bit. You know, it's rough, but the river may be navigable for a small boat. But getting back would be problematic.

138.02.07: Plans are finalized and I've done a little work to get the construction finalized. There will be a few rooms on the ground, and it will connect to the den passage. The passage walls will be lined with brick and the roof is being reinforced for stability and to avoid plants invading. The lowest floor of the building will be partially brick and partially timber. The  second floor will be entirely wood, and above this will be a nice large tower which should be able to see the coast. I've also planned for some ceramic shingles to be made and applied. Of course, the robots can only handle the walls and such; when I return I'll be putting in doors, windows, and the other fixtures.

138.02.11: I've been traveling the past few days and have finally reached the coast (Though the distance is merely around 10 miles, I've been making a path as I go). I left one of the short range communicators where I can observe the tower construction, but at this distance I can't get a signal. I've been tracking the river along the way and while it's a little rough in my valley, after a few miles it smooths out and may be passible with some kind of boat. There is, however, a strong current up to the last mile or so of the river.
The coast here is a mix of bluffs and pebbly beaches; the river mouth is in a low area of the cliffs. I plan to head back up and work on the Tower tommorow. Soon I plan to be able to hatch at least a few of those eggs and get a culture going.

138.02.12: I'm about halfway back up at the moment. Just wanted to note that the river flows thrugh a few narrow chanels around here that bring the path away from it. Also, found a plant that might not be growing up by the den/tower/workshop area. I've taken a sample.

138.02.13: well, that makes it about 6 days since I left and the robots have gotten quite a bit of work done. The tower is not yet finished off, but all in all it looks good here. I'm going to get right to work on the furnishings. Oh, forgot to mention; the 11th was the equinox, so spring is now becoming summer instead of winter becoming spring.

138.02.14: Got a lot of the doors and so on done. I'd forgotten about that plant I found; It looks like a medicinal mild painkiller. Now, I still have a lot of open windows, but I'll need some good sand to process the glass from... I think what I'll do is try out my plan to boat down to the coast. While it would be tough to leave from right here, I saw a good place about two miles downstream. Now I just need a boat.

138.02.15: I built a simple boat. It's not pretty, but it's stable and I've attached the motor from the hauler. I'll bring the crucible and some power cells and I should be able to make some windows.

138.02.16: The trip was uneventful and I still have plenty of daylight to work on the glass. I've been thinking of putting something down here, once we get established up in the valley.

138.02.17: The trip up was much slower as I was fighting the current, but the trip was a sucess. I'll get the windows installed and fill out the inside of the tower and then I think I can set up an incubator room.

138.02.20: Got quite a lot of the place furnished. There is a kichen, with the woodstove, and all the general stuff is scattered around the house. I've set up the tower room as a room of my own, as the rest will be for the creatures to wander. I can see the sea to the west from here; it's quite lovely.

138.02.21: I set up the Incubator in a room by the kitchen and made it secure. I've made sure that we have food stored from the farm- though I orderded a kitchen kit - general cooking tools (make some cheese, perhaps.)

138.03.01: I'm hatching just one of the eggs, one of the Tarnal females, to start. After I see how they settle into the den, I'll be able to take care of more. The Tarnal are a common breed, but they're clever and hardy. They also tend to care for other creatures, making them exelent to raise first so they can help care for thier nestmates.

138.03.02: She's hatched. I'm thinking "Aoama".

I wasted a few hours on that. Keep in mind it's semi-in-game; for instance, the writer does not need food or sleep, and has arbitrary skill, only being limited by the tools and resources he has. Also, the tech level is crazy, so while there's robots, they are busy feeding a woodstove a major bit of the time. Also note that a small hydroelectric system that was just "tossed in" the river should probably not be able to power an iron-smelting crucible. Let alone a bunch of batteries.

This edition focuses on construction; living creatures is an entire work on it's own.

The island is vaguely defined, but I'd estimate it's... humm... (15 units shore to valley)+(10 units from valley to mountain ridgline)+(10 units to shore on far side) = 45 units wide, which might be a quarter of the length, roughly, so 180 units long. The island has inlets and it tapers at the ends, but also has several peninsulas and islets that cancel this out, so that's 8100 square units. If these are miles, that's 25,090,560,000 square-yard-sized CA cells of land, plus whatever's at sea (which can be considerably simpler). So let's say that each unit is a quarter mile... 506.25 square miles, or merely 1,568,160,000 cells.

Oh, multiply each of those by at least five for vertically stacked cells.

If each cell of our 7,840,800,000 stores 500 (a rough estimate of the number of CA values we're using) 8-bit values, that's 3.565 terabytes of CA data.

It would cost roughly $400 to store this much data, which does not include such trivialities as file headers and, for instance, the terrain shape data or creature dDNA. These are harder to estimate, but would likely pale in comparison to the world.

However, since a good gaming computer today has about half a TB, and this doubles every 16 months, that's only three 16-mo. periods, or four years, until a good gaming computer could save one of these worlds. Actually running them? I don't know. 16 years... maybe.

I can wait.