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[Lord Shonus]

That is exactly what I am saying. If women were worshiped as physical gods, it wouldn't have made a bit of difference. This isn't a man that believed in a cause in the way that terrorists generally do, nor was he detached as a general or drone controller is. He was a man that believed that the entire human race was devoted to the goal of making his life a living hell, and decided to strike back. The ONLY thing that could have averted this tragedy (short of preemptively killing him) would be a mental health care system that wasn't made of bailing wire and duct tape.

Edit: This was a direct reply to Vector, not Glowcat

[Vector]

I've read about 70% of his manifesto and he grew up with a fair number of friends. He was bullied, yeah, for sure. Those parts were hard to read. But around 18 he apparently developed some kind of political theory. He didn't do much talking about his deal in the memoir, other than saying that he talked to another involuntarily celibate friend about it a lot and scared the guy off in the end with the fervency of his vision. He considered himself part of the MRA movement.

He didn't believe that the entire human race was devoted to the goal of making his life a living hell. What he literally says, over and over again, is that the problem is that he has not received a hot blond girlfriend. And he was angry. Because he was owed one.

[Lord Shonus]

"All I ever wanted was to fit in and live a happy life amongst humanity, but I was cast out and rejected, forced to endure an existence of loneliness and insignificance, all because the females of the human species were incapable of seeing the value in me,"

"My orchestration of the Day of Retribution is my attempt to do everything, in my power, to destroy everything I cannot have. All of those beautiful girls I’ve desired so much in my life, but can never have because they despise and loathe me, I will destroy. All of those popular people who live hedonistic lives of pleasure, I will destroy, because they never accepted me as one of them. I will kill them all and make them suffer, just as they have made me suffer. It is only fair."

"Humanity struck at me first by condemning me to experience so much suffering. I didn’t ask for this. I didn’t want this. I didn’t start this war… I wasn’t the one who struck first… But I will finish it by striking back. I will punish everyone. And it will be beautiful."

"I began to have fantasies of becoming very powerful and stopping everyone from having sex. I wanted to take their sex away from them, just like they took it away from me. I saw sex as an evil and barbaric act, all because I was unable to have it. This was the major turning point. My anger made me stronger inside. This was when I formed my ideas that sex should be outlawed. It is the only way to make the world a fair and just place. If I can’t have it, I will destroy it. That’s the conclusion I came to, right then and there."

"Not only did she kick me out of father’s house, but she forbade me to go there even for a short visit. And still, father didn’t do anything about it. Father kept saying that the house is her house as much as his, and that she has the right to kick me out. No! I am the eldest son! The house should be MY house before hers! This caused any respect I still had for my father to fade away completely. It was such a betrayal, to put his second wife before his eldest son. What kind of father would do that? The bitch must be really good to him in bed, I figured. What a weak man."

Clearly not the writings of a man who viewed the entire human race as his enemy.

[Vector]

.

[Xantalos]

Dammit Stannis.

[Arx]

It looks to me like he was, whatever else, badly unhinged. He does seem to hold more against women than others, but it looks to me like he was sufficiently broken that feminism may not have helped, unless it was perfect enough that he saw absolutely no difference between men and women, and to be honest I don't believe that that level is achievable. There will always be outliers in any system.

Of course, I'm not 'MURRICAN, so I sometimes feel that my opinions and cultural background are irrelevant to these debates. I don't think there have been any mass shootings here since around the end of Apartheid (aside from Marikana, which is a whole different can of worms to this one).

[Vector]

.

[Kadzar]

Is it incorrect to claim that mentally ill persons are often unable to cope with situations that well adjusted persons cannot? Or is it incorrect to suggest that extreme social ostracism, real or perceived, is one of the most - if not THE most - destructive forces in the human psyche? The human mind has limits beyond which it cannot function, and mental illness renders those limits both incredibly variable and extremely fragile. Labeling the results of the failure of those limits as something that "feminism" can solve rather than investing in the sort of help individuals with these problems need merely guarantees that the problem will never be reduced, let alone solved.

His having Asperger's may have contributed to his rejection by women, and may even have caused him to not know how to cope with the situation, but shooting up a bunch of people was definitely a moral failure. Most people with Asperger's (myself included) do not respond to an unfamiliar situation we don't know how to deal with by killing people because we know it's wrong to hurt people.

As I see it, the problem here was that this particular person didn't feel what he was doing was wrong, otherwise he wouldn't have done it, and ideas or right and wrong are things we pick up from society or determine from our own ponderings, not something anyone is born with. I guess I might agree that, if some mental health professional had picked up on his insane ideas it might have helped, but I don't like the idea of people throwing Aspies under the bus; we have just as much ability act morally as everybody else.

[Arx]

What I originally meant was that he had been reported to the police and the police didn't take the tip seriously despite enormous amounts of evidence. If they'd searched his apartment they would have found a stockpile of weapons. And a lot of writings on his plans to kill women. That is a feminism problem.

My bad. I definitely agree with you on that point.

[TamerVirus]

Simple: We ban virginity!

[Xantalos]

Simple: We ban virginity!

Siggd.

[Lord Shonus]

Is it incorrect to claim that mentally ill persons are often unable to cope with situations that well adjusted persons cannot? Or is it incorrect to suggest that extreme social ostracism, real or perceived, is one of the most - if not THE most - destructive forces in the human psyche? The human mind has limits beyond which it cannot function, and mental illness renders those limits both incredibly variable and extremely fragile. Labeling the results of the failure of those limits as something that "feminism" can solve rather than investing in the sort of help individuals with these problems need merely guarantees that the problem will never be reduced, let alone solved.

His having Asperger's may have contributed to his rejection by women, and may even have caused him to not know how to cope with the situation, but shooting up a bunch of people was definitely a moral failure. Most people with Asperger's (myself included) do not respond to an unfamiliar situation we don't know how to deal with by killing people because we know it's wrong to hurt people.

As I see it, the problem here was that this particular person didn't feel what he was doing was wrong, otherwise he wouldn't have done it, and ideas or right and wrong are things we pick up from society or determine from our own ponderings, not something anyone is born with. I guess I might agree that, if some mental health professional had picked up on his insane ideas it might have helped, but I don't like the idea of people throwing Aspies under the bus; we have just as much ability act morally as everybody else.

I never claimed his Asperger's was the cause of the situation, merely as proof that he had at least one mental disorder, and I believed that I made it quite clear that he clearly had multiple which contributed greatly to his inability to cope with the problem rationally.

[Yoink]

Well, I'm hesitant to wade into this discussion but there have been at least a few cases of police failing to follow through on a tip that could have prevented a mass shooting. *shrug* I don't think all of them involved targeted attacks on women which were ignored due to sexism.

[Kadzar]

Even still, this incident and Glowcat's links show that there is a problem with some men not being able to deal with rejection. It kills me that women are afraid to say no to a guy for fear of violence.

[Yoink]

Oh yeah, I'm not arguing against that.
Simply saying that less sexism wouldn't necessarily have made the police competent enough to prevent the shooting.

Edit: Unless that was a response to someone else? I'm not actually sure.