Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[BlazingDav]

I propose an alternate application of magma as opposed to traditional methods in attempts to solve problems, possibly exploiting AI logic I guess, but ultimately something I've been cooking up for a while in my mind.

We have seen a drowning chamber of magma, effective, simple, only real issues are that it can be a pain to drain and 'accidents' with people getting stuck can occur and ultimately its capacity is an issue, if you had a continuous assault essentially itd be slow going, not going to happen, but you cna get stragglers that get left out which can upset slightly =P

Then we have magma walls, burning great doom they are, burning anything that walks through them, the issue being is that AI will eventually realise that the 7/7 liquid that is the wall is unsafe and not walk through it (I think thats how it goes anyway), though if enemies were willing to walk through it, you would only need to worry about power really, also making them thicker would always be a pain.

Then there is the adapted mist generator if I recall it right, capable of burning all who walk into the magma being pumped round in its circuit, avoids pathing and capacity issues, but it is a bit on the vulnerable side to building destroyers in the end.

Magma is used more for its capacity with high temperature to burn and melt all that oppose it as opposed to drowning them, like its mild fluid cousin water. Which led me to think what if we don't do direct application? I remember many a time that a mason or miner has died from being set alight or in the heat from mining or fortificating into magma pipes (I always did go too deep I guess sometimes)

So my idea is to modify the concept of the magma wall learning from past experience and knowledge of magma and traps I've seen and heard of and so create a corridor that shall have magma falls neatly arranged so all can path through it only to burn in the heat that will exist in the corridor. Something that will look like this (for every 3 tiles of corridor, possibly with a fluid logic pressure plate setup at either end so as to start when they come knocking and to shutoff when your dwarfs head for it, or to seal it off from them):

Excuse the drawing quality please I cant seem to get DF paint to cooperate right now, hopefully you get the general idea though (+ = floor, W/w = wall, >% = pump with > representing where it pumps to, # = grate, l = axle for mechanics)

Z 0 (main corridor level)

wWWWW+++++WWWWWW
w#>%+w+#+#+w+%<#w
wWWWW+++++WWWWWW

Z -1 (magma pit/storage)

W++++++++++++++++++W
W++++++++++++++++++X (<- magma source sealed off with flood gate?)
W++++++++++++++++++W

Z +1 (overhead pump room)

Www l wwwwwww l WWWW
WWw#>%#W#%<#WWW
Www l wwwwwww l WWWW


---

From that Id hope that enemies pathing through the corridor would automatically path round what I'd hope to be columns of fiery death only to be navigating through a high temperature region and die in the heat or be set on fire, thankfully it works for a 5 wide corridor, but could be scaled down to a 3 wide, but I dont think it  could scale up to a 7 wide corridor though without another z-level of pumps maybe or re-organisation, the only issues I'd think there would when there are friendlies finding themselves in the middle of it when an ambush or siege trigger it off, what its effective length might be, power consumption as a result, then heat resistant critters that breeze through it. While I haven't done testing I think the theory is pretty sound, hopefully I will if I ever get an iron/steel industry off the ground in my current fort, it fits my defense style, being relatively secure in itself, I am already plotting out how I'd dig it out actually. My miners always have work.

Pointers, comments, modification suggestions are all very welcome (and probably needed), apologies if someone has done this before in advanced, though I hope not admittedly >.>, but as usual be careful, as too much Fun can kill sometimes XP

[Quietust]

Magma doesn't heat adjacent squares hot enough to pose any danger at all - in fact, it isn't even hot enough to boil water (otherwise the technique of channeling magma underneath a frozen river to thaw it wouldn't work properly).

[DennyTom]

This would be interesting if used on glacier ... otherwise you just heat up the walls and floor so invaders will feel cozy

[Magua]

What Quietust said.  I'm on a glacier now where I have magma running both above *and* below a non-Subterranean pond, and it *still* sometimes freezes.

[Grendus]

The coolest application of magma-traps has got to be the carbonite traps. A solid wall of ice held liquid by magma underneath, then you pull a lever, the magma is removed, and the gobs instantly freeze solid. Then mine out a few of the tiles, re-pump the magma, and reset the trap.

[BlazingDav]

Shame about that then, another idea out the window till pastures greener, though maybe if I 'encouraged' regular spills of 1/7 around each of the columns itd work?

I could invert the design though I guess, building floor grates where there are floors and floors where there were floor grates, creating a constant spill over of magma in all directions hopefully. Creating spill over with hopefully a sufficiently high temperature to roast those walking through it, I presume, there'd be less magma where there aren't as many cross overs, but itd still work?

[Mcshay]

I've gotten something similar to this to work pretty well. Here's my design:

Code: [Select]

= -> wall
+ -> floor
# -> iron floor grate
* -> floor, above this there is a hole that lava falls through

=======
###+++#
#*###*#
#+++###
=======

Below this floor is a chamber about 5/7 full of lava, pumps carry the lava two floors up and drop it down onto the floor tiles represented by the asterisks. When dry, a caravan can get across. When in use, the lava renders the floor tiles useless, forcing the invaders to walk over the grates, which are constantly awash with falling lava.

They path perfectly through and will reliably come out on fire.

Note that the 3 border grates prevent lava from escaping out of the trap, you should only have to worry about keeping dwarfs from using the hallway while it is active.

[BlazingDav]

Thanks, at least I know the alteration will work =P

Shame the original doesnt, would have been fun, though this is too, though now I feel like having a different defence mechanism of each sort (turning my military into an arena sort of setup by forcing enemies to path through a shooting gallery to let my marksdwarves weed them out (or not) before the melee in a main court stopping them reaching their targets. Already got drowning chambers and ballista corridors done (partly). Personally I dont like wasting perfectly good labour on military matters than can be handled by mechanical might.

On another note I scanned through the dev notes quickly for magma and lava references and saw nothing relating to how it heats the world around it, admittedly may have been filed under temperature or something, but more raising this to get opinions on how others think lava's heat should be handled in ideas like this in a future development, even how whether it stays hot or not (maybe a calculation too far?...)

[shadowclasper]

I'm actually going to see about trying a magma mister... that might cause some incredibly cool damage if done right...

Magma mist can go through fortifications right?

[Nexii Malthus]

Magma mist is created using a cavein.

So you'd basically setup landmine-esque traps that instead hover over nearby magma instead theoretically.

[shadowclasper]

What? I thought you could create it through magma falls?

[eerr]

in that design, the magma mist wil be more effective if you drop the magma from higher up, like the top of a dome.

[Nexii Malthus]

What? I thought you could create it through magma falls?

It is a common mistake.

Still very deadly though.

[Shade-o]

My ultimate magma trap plan has to do with tunneling out a series of holes outside the entrance of the fort. They are all linked together in a sort of sewer system, then connected to a raised (inside the mountain) cistern. When enemies approach, pumps are activated and the pressurized magma is forced up the pipes, simultaneously causing magma to burst out of the ground and spread out, like a volcano disaster movie.

That's the plan, at least.

[Nexii Malthus]

That's the plan, at least.

I'm planning something like that too for using the awesome power of semi-pressurized magma.
I'm thinking of an effective way to remove it as well when needed, perhaps some floodgates back into the reservoir. Hallway being 2 tilewide with steel grates.