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Author Topic: Echoes of Imperium (4X Strategy Game)[Not Dead]  (Read 36829 times)

Lap

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Echoes of Imperium (4X Strategy Game)[Not Dead]
« on: May 03, 2010, 02:24:16 am »

Forums located at www.echoesofimperium.com

Still need volunteers to draw 32x32 unit sprites

So I've taken a break from my recent Men of War and Garry's Mod modding and I decided to make a strategy game.

I'm paying homage to two of the most underrated games I know, Dominions 3 and Emperor of the Fading Suns (which itself is a pretty big Dune rip). Neither games are graphical super stars, but by posting here I'm going to assume that doesn't matter.

Dominions 3 is a fantasy turn-based strategy game with a risk-like board filled with provinces to conquer. Dominions 3 has an amazing system for multiplayer. It does not use a hex-based grid, and battles are automated, but battleplans can be set beforehand. The player can then watch the battle when they get their next turn to see what happened. Although most people still prefer to fight battles manually, trying to do this in a multiplayer game, especially with more than one person, means games never finish.

Dom3 also had amazing customization and a lot of unique mechanics I'll be shamelessly ripping.

Pics Hidden:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Dominions 3 Features:

-Risk-style province system
-Huge amount of units
-Fun mechanics (Olympic-type arena, globally biddable mercenaries, world changing spells/abilities)
-Automated, preconfigurable, watchable battles
-Dedicated multiplayer PBEM host.

Emperor of the Fading Suns is an even lesser known game that Dominions 3. It is the only game I know that let's you build a civilization-like empire, but on multiple planets. Having to deal with space and enemies that can land all over your planet is a unique challenge that I want to replicate. There are a few other notable things about EotFS. One is that it had a rarely used resource system in these types of games. Instead of building cities for population, most of the building is separate facilities to mine/harvest and refine the dozen resources. The resource system manages to be very easy to grasp despite the amount of resources and it allows for a lot more strategy (blockades especially).

The main things about EotFS that I like are the setting and politics. The universe is ruled by a single emperor and all the players play as leaders of Houses vying for power. Each player needs to protect their noble bloodline (losing all your nobles = game over) and they need to try and get as many royal scepters as possible. Royal scepters are units that can be captured by anyone clever enough to find and obtain them. Each scepter counts as a vote whenever elections are called.

When elections are called everyone votes for who they want to be the Imperial Regent. The Regent's main power is that they assign who get's to be in the Royal offices (and they can pick a role as well). The Imperial Fleet Commander has full control of a large and powerful space navy. The Stigmata have a massive defensive force and are charged with defending humanity from the mutants. The Imperial Eye has spies all over the universe as well as several other fun units. Essentially, each has a role that players are supposed to fill, but players will try to use them as much to their advantage as possible. "So what if I'm targeting the rebels near my planets first?" "Oops, looks like the mutants are attacking your planets. I promise to try harder next time."

 There's also a neutral trading faction, marauding mutants, and The Church. The Church is the most interesting, as they will randomly put bans of certain technologies it deems 'evil'. If you continue to research or build units that use these technolgies you will anger the church. Their massive armies will crusade against you, burning down your labs and  possibly declaring war on you. This was a great risk/reward system and it also kept games from always having the exact same tech progression.

Anyways, to win the game you need to become the regent and then try to take the crown by starting a massive fight with every player and trying to conquer the super-planet Byzantium.

Pics Hidden:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EotFS Features:
-Civ-like building on mutliple worlds
-Cool resource system
-Awesome politics and related game mechanics
-Great Technolgy Tree

So what I'm going to do is take all of these and merge them into soe sort of super game. I'm building it with multiplayer from the ground up and don't even know if I'll ever get to AI.

I'm willing to accept any help on can with just about anything. If you want to throw in ideas, help code, submit art, playtest, map, whatever, be my guest. I'll be releasing this free and open source.


Systems: PC/Max/Linux
Singleplayer: Not initially
Multiplayer: LAN/NET/Hotseat
Turn based - Simultaneous Execution (http://www.rjcyberware.com/md/intro-tbse.html)
Theme: Dune/WH40K-esque

Warning!!! These screenshots are from literally only two days of work. They show the basic idea of how maps will work and some of the most basic UI elements. Currently, I've gotten the framework down to add maps, units, resources and most of the variables I'll need to actually make content. I'm currently working on making some more custom UI animations and elements before I make the dedicated server.

 
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 05:11:20 pm by Lap »
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gamefreak1

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Re: Dominions + Dune (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2010, 07:33:51 am »

I'm liking the look of this those are great games.
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dephbokks

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Re: Dominions + Dune (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2010, 09:23:41 am »

Sounds good. I've read that mini-essay linked at the end of your post and it brings up good points and its solution convinced me. So hopefully you can succeed.

A few questions though: what language/APIs are you using? How are you going to do multiplayer?

I could be willing to help. Where are you hosting the project and how will the team be managed?
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Lap

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Re: Dominions + Dune (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2010, 12:23:03 pm »

Quick Project Tools:
Primary Language: Lua (Will use an SVN)
Primary Client Engine: Love?
Hosting: Personal Webserver (10Mbit Up on a quadcore. Can probably host everything and a master serverlist)
Map format: XML
Team Discussion: Ventrilo, Forums, Google Docs
Bugtracking: Mantis

I typically work with lua due to my impatience with compilers, but also because of how many more people it lets help out. I love how easily moddable it is, which is how I got introduced to it. An extra bonus is that if real programmers actually want to use C they can just make a library and we can link to it. Any code that is already isolated can be easily made into compiled code.

Lua itself is pretty slow, but for a turn based game it won't actually matter. I'll probably be using the Love engine to save some time as they bundle together all the standard API's anyways. Design docs, progress, ideas, will either end up on google docs or message boards, with the rapidly changing internal documents more likely being on google docs.

Here's how multiplayer works:

1. A player hosts a server, chooses a map, settings, etc.
2. Every player, including the host, joins this server.
3. A player picks a slot and chooses their faction,password, settings, etc. Any player can play any number of factions if the host allows it.
4. Players play their turn at their leisure and when they are finished ordering their units they submit their turn from the server. Players can disconnect and reconnect without problems.
5.When a specified time is up or all players have completed their turns, the server calculates the next turn and sends out information specialized for each player so there's no unpacking or hacking the data to see stuff you shouldn't.

So this system has a lot of benefits:

+Theoretically limitless amount of players on a server without taking forever.
+Players can play multiple sides and fill in for dropped players.
+Dropped players can be safely ignored.
+Players don't need to be present for 15 hours straight to play a strategy game.
+Can't hack client data to divine things you shouldn't.
+Very low resource usage and effort needed to host.

Main downside is that splitting up the data for each player is a bitch to me, but oh well. I especially like how a player who only has fifteen minutes a day can play while power gamers can as well by playing on a low time limit server, playing multiple factions, or multiple games.

How the I usually run dev teams:

I've been doing this for about ten years with teams under six people. Typically, standards for entrance are pretty low and I can almost always find something for someone to do. My main concern is that members are not ten years old. Being on Bay12 already does a good job of filtering out the type of people that I wouldn't want anyways. I realize that most people are here to have fun and maybe gain some experience and so I'm happy to teach and learn wherever I can. I enjoy discussion and debate and actually have a hard time getting feedback most of the time.

As this is a free project, I do not have formal deadlines and contributors are given a fairly large amount of freedom in what they want to work on. Especially at this stage in the project, it would be pretty hard for me not to find use for a random art asset or UI element that someone creates.

I tend to be a renaissance man able to help out in just about everything with the exception of creation of art assets, though I usually focus on coding/scripting as that's usually the rarest skill set.

How maps are made:


I've already got the frameworks for maps down. Maps will be saved in a zip containing their graphic files and an XML file. The XML file itself is just for human readability and I personally just make the map data in notepad and then run it through a table converter. Though the ability to add units, buildings and other special features aren't in yet, that's only because they don't exist. Those will simply be handled with another field in the region file. It should be extremely easy for someone with absolutely no knowledge of scripting to create maps. This is important, because they do take a couple hours to make and it should save the core of the team from having to divert too much of their time to it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Haven't really thought of a good name for this yet.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 12:24:42 pm by Lap »
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dephbokks

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Re: Dominions + Dune (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2010, 03:31:25 pm »

Lap, sounds good. If you would like the help, send me a PM with details & I can provide my email address. I have a lot on my plate now, but I could donate some time every week.

The only problem is I've never used Lua. My languages are C#, C, C++, Python, Actionscript, and Silverlight. But learning Lua should be pretty easy. I've checked out Love before & it looks pretty cool.

Something I could do is work on a map editor if that'd be a need. Also, I am pretty fluent with common game algorithms.
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DFNewb

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Re: Dominions + Dune (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2010, 04:11:32 pm »

I'll happily Beta-test when the beta comes  :P
Also looks good, I enjoyed Dominions 3, Dune and  Emperor of the Fading Suns, so this looks good to me.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Dominions + Dune (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2010, 05:49:33 pm »

Subscribing, subscribing...
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x2yzh9

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Re: Dominions + Dune (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2010, 05:55:33 pm »

I will happily beta-test as well.

Lap

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Re: Dominions + Dune (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2010, 08:01:51 pm »

I've posted the massive 12 + pages of the design doc to google docs. This covers most all of the major mechanics of the game, including ones that are under consideration. I'll be adding to this over time.

http://docs.google.com/View?id=ajjpvfhr6skd_194ggjnsqfr

I've also included the combat formula and a detailed look at those mechanics (rather complex, but you guys are used to killing things with individual tissue layers so whatever).

http://docs.google.com/View?id=ajjpvfhr6skd_199cjknb9hp
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Davion

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Re: Dominions + Dune (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2010, 10:03:24 pm »

If you need anyone for interface art and that sort of thing then I might be able to contribute.
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Lap

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Re: Dominions + Dune (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2010, 12:10:27 am »

If you need anyone for interface art and that sort of thing then I might be able to contribute.

Oh for the love of god please do! My art skills are near nonexistent and until I get someone I am going to have to resort to temporarily ripping graphics straight out of EotFS.
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Davion

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Re: Dominions + Dune (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2010, 03:28:56 pm »

Cool, I'll mess around with some prototype graphics when I have some time.

A suggestion: Get an IRC chat room going so people that are interested in helping can hang around and bug the shit out of you, IE me.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 03:36:26 pm by Davion »
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Lap

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Re: Dominions + Dune (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2010, 04:44:14 pm »

Though I'm typically always connected to something like AIM or steam there's no reason why I couldn't have an IRC channel as well. I'll be hanging around on #eotfs on GameSurge.net for a few days and see if it's worth keeping up.

On a side note, I've finished the combat calculations and they seem to be working great. I can now test fight armies against each other.
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E. Albright

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Re: Dominions + Dune (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2010, 05:39:09 pm »

In times past I gave thought to (and even started design work on) an EFS clone, and I generally like the look of what your design docs are saying. A thought or two in no particular order, to be considered or discarded out of hand as you see fit:

  • Love the idea of D3-style provinces replacing hexes (though I do love hexes). This just makes the scale of something EFS-esque seem a lot cleaner.
  • Landers: if you want to make a larger distinction between normal and assault transports, continue to let any transport land anywhere. Make non-assault landers take damage (or maybe not if the target was a friendly non-spaceport "city"), and lose all additional movement (i.e., for them, landing takes a whole turn w/o a spaceport, even in a city); let assault landers continue to move (up-down-up, or suchlike), and let them land on hostile occupied provinces, with their contents attacking the occupiers after PTS (and Air?) fire occurs (with non-"marine" units having, say, initiative and stealth penalties).
  • I would hope sub-orbitals are intended to be able to move into hostile provinces (taking PTS fire as applies, obviously).
  • I'd recommend against letting attackers see how much damage is done when bombarding. At most, give a limited spot check and let the attacker see spotted targets hit (but not how damaged they are). If you decide to make infantry vulnerable (boo!), make them immune or highly resistant to this spot check.
  • I'd lean away from fixed limits on bombardment damage; it should be possible to destroy units from orbit. However, a decent compromise might be to impose diminishing returns based on how damaged units are. If infantry is targetable, this could ramp up more quickly for them.
  • Mercenaries: I'd lean towards non-instant availability, at least for galaxy-wide mercs. Regional or planatary would be more reasonable to have show up immediately. Giving (all? some larger?) companies a "home" that they travel from could also allow them to reinforce themselves (or be prevented from doing so, or reconstitute themselves, or be permanently wiped out) if you wanted to add the complexity that would entail. If you wanted more flavor, make some companies unwilling to work for some houses (explain to me why the Eternal Knights would join Ermor again), or perhaps even houses employing (or possibly had previously hired) some particularly hated rival company. Or houses holding a particular ministry, with the added bonus of having sneaky regents being able to use this fact to prevent a rival house from renewing the contract of a vexing company.
  • Further thought, with lots of complexity wrapped into it: let players rent blocks of troops as mercenaries? Forgo control for X turns (with the cavaet that they'll possibly/probably turn on their paymaster if a war erupts between creator and renter). Possibly also granting intel to the creating house, hehehe...
  • Sceptor hiding: make at least the planet every sceptor is on public at every election it's used in. If a player wants to hide a sceptor, they must forgo the vote it brings.
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Lap

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Re: Dominions + Dune (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2010, 09:13:21 pm »

I really appreciate you being able to give feedback on the design doc.

-There really aren't a lot of plans for suborbitals at the moment. I haven't fleshed out how those will work yet.

-I'm getting lots of different opinions and ideas for bombardment and I'm still taking them all in

-I think I'll be going with a mix of global and local mercs. Travel time will probably be in for at least global mercs. Restrictions on who can buy what will definitely be in. An example would be mercenaries that only join you if you have good church relations.

-Players will probably be able to lend or give forces to another. Being able to put them on a market for sale is an interesting and rare mechanic and is going to get looked at further.

-There will need to be ways to find scepters and this seems like a good idea.


I'm also thinking about releasing the combat tester. This should allow everyone to be able to make units and have armies fight each other and view the results. It's also a great way to examine the effects to changes to certain combat mechanics.
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