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[Pathos]

No, it's not "just fucking different". It's getting hard to respond to your posts because they're getting more and more packed with shit you've basically just pulled out of your ass. Where are you getting this cultural context for carnival and why are carnivals bastions of innocence and celebrations? Why are dancing competitions not celebrations of dancing skills and freedom of expression but instead sexualised degredation affairs that ruin young girls innocence? Why is one girl being dressed by her mother and going on a parade or somesuch in a super-revealing outfit not sexual at all but a group of girls (Who are incidentally wearing more concealing clothing, which would also have been chosen for them) doing a dance routine is sexually charged and degrading their innocence?

Your argument now seems to rest on 'well it's fine for THEM to have a carnival because I choose to believe that carnivals are all purity and fun and about expression, so in that context I won't attribute sexuality to a prepubescent girl. It's totally not okay for girls to dance around for a competition though because I believe then that they're being encouraged to be FILTHY. FILTHY FILTHY GIRLS.'

To put it simply: Because I, and I imagine many others, do not view it as sexual. There doesn't seem to be anything sexual about that picture (maybe the outfit a small amount, but as I said it's a pure imitation of an older woman's). The difference is in the context. The girls may be wearing more concealing outfits, but they're acting as an adolescent / adult female would if she wanted to "strut her stuff" in dancing. The Carnival girl just seems to be skipping along happily. It's the difference between a girl walking around a town in a bikini and being by the beach in one.

I didn't say anything about carnivals being about purity. But, they aren't to attribute sexuality to a prepubescent girl. It's a celebration of the very idea of life. It's not SEXUAL, it's about virility and growth and everything else, and that's where the little girl comes into it. Whereas the DANCING girls are doing it in a way to suggest FERTILITY and SEXUALITY.

TL;DR: You know it's different, and you're just trolling this thread. Also, you've yet to provide a reason why the Latino girl is sexualised.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

I have the sneaking suspicion it's more likely that it's blocked because the song playing in the background is copyrighted, and there's no deal with the local rightsholders to allow it to be played in that country.

[Zombie]

I... just ugh.  Little girls should play in the dirt with their goddamned dump trucks, kick soccerballs, and plant crops.  Tricycles.  Forts.  Dolls, if they're so inclined.  Dance for the sake of dancing, run around stark nekkid on occasion, whatever.  But not this sexualized crap in front of a big audience.  I think young women need a chance to just be themselves before starting on the whole appearance-altering fuckfest that adult women get thrown into.  They need to learn who they are, so that when the world starts asking them to pretend they're something they aren't they can know what's happening.  They're all right if they're a bit chubby or skinny, they're all right if they'd rather play with swords than dolls, they're all right if they're lonely, they're all right if there's too many people around.  You need a sense of self before you can put on a mask without losing that self, and I think too many women nowadays lose themselves to a mask due to starting shit like this too soon in life.

Before you learn to be perfect, you should learn to be imperfect.  Life will be gentler, that way.

I think this holds true for anyone. Keep in mind that the only audience here isn't all those people cheering for girls dancing to a sexualized song in a somewhat vaguely sexual manner dressed far more skimpy than Beyonce was... There might be other kids watching. What this becomes is a thing saying, "Yes, this is cool. Look at all the attention they are getting and no one is mad!"

I don't understand how people can say this is not sexual. We are talking about Single Ladies. This song is not a "Yay, let's dance!" song. The intent of this song is not a "Yay, let's dance!" song. Adults picked the song, adults picked the outfits, and adults taught them the choreography. Why is it so hard to see that this is a bunch of little girls who, to them are having fun and dancing... but to random people on the internet it can be construed as little girls doing a very sexual dance to a sexual song with a crowd cheering them on? Earlier in the thread people have said this. People are still saying this.

Yes, it's what kids do. Yes, they're really damn good dancers. Yes, they were likely pushed into it by their parents. Yes, the crowd's likely intent is to applaud their dancing skill and not to critique the performance's unintended message, which is something about little girls doing sexy dances. It makes my brain hurt to think about.

I think we do this a whole heaping helping of disservice if we do not view it from all angles. Children dance and have fun and that's precious. They do this to any music. If you put on "I Like Big Butts", you can probably get a baby to dance to it. A pervert who would like to molest that child, however, will probably think that's sexy and that the kid likes big butts. When you have people dancing choreographed to a song, it is implied that they are carrying the meaning of that song. So if a group of little girls is dancing to a song about a woman going to a club, picking up a man, and having sex with him, then it can be construed (Arguably!) that the intended message is that these little girls do these things.

Children also do things that we don't want to see. They poop. It's natural. Do we want to see that? Hopefully, no. Would it be wise to post that on YouTube? Not at all. Children also run around naked from time to time. Hopefully no one here particularly wants to see that. This would, likewise, be unwise to post anywhere. The question here is, do these girls realize what's going on? Do they realize that they are being simplified to the point where they are little more than very articulate dolls dancing around? Do they realize that what they are construing as fun is being interpreted differently by different people? Do they realize that their outfits, while costume clothes, are being seen and perceived in different ways with different connotations by different people? Likely not. I think this is why, to me, this is most disgusting. These girls are being objectified to the point to where they aren't human, anymore. They are toys for whoever dressed them up and made them dance. They are puppets. They are a conduit through which someone can live out their frustrated dreams and wishes.

Remember: While these are little girls, very adult ideas are being pushed onto them by adults.

[smigenboger]

(Page 6-early7)
Hey, calm down before someone in charge has to tell us to calm down. It's an iffy topic at least, with people calling others out on it, it's going to get ugly

Edit: Very well put, Zombie. That really sums up both the arguments and the problems in question

[Neruz]

Do they realize that they are being simplified to the point where they are little more than very articulate dolls dancing around?

Whaaaat.

Jesus christ; they can't even dance in front of an audience and get attention (something all people, especially children, want) without someone deciding they're 'objects'. What the fuck is wrong with you people.

[ein]

I have the sneaking suspicion it's more likely that it's blocked because the song playing in the background is copyrighted horribad, and there's no deal with the local rightsholders reason for the government to allow it to be played in that country corrupt the masses.

Fixed that for you.

Very well put, Zombie. That really sums up both the arguments and the problems in question

Quoted for truth.

[Duke 2.0]

Do they realize that they are being simplified to the point where they are little more than very articulate dolls dancing around?

Whaaaat.

Jesus christ; they can't even dance in front of an audience and get attention (something all people, especially children, want) without someone deciding they're 'objects'. What the fuck is wrong with you people.

Isn't this simplifying what he said a little much?

[Vector]

Whaaaat.

Jesus christ; they can't even dance in front of an audience and get attention (something all people, especially children, want) without someone deciding they're 'objects'. What the fuck is wrong with you people.

I think you're looking at this with the benefit of years of age and experience.  They are 7-year-olds.  Personally, I think it is better for them to have a chance at living a more isolated life.

[Neruz]

Whaaaat.

Jesus christ; they can't even dance in front of an audience and get attention (something all people, especially children, want) without someone deciding they're 'objects'. What the fuck is wrong with you people.

I think you're looking at this with the benefit of years of age and experience.  They are 7-year-olds.  Personally, I think it is better for them to have a chance at living a more isolated life.

And i think it would be better if i had a chance to win a million dollars.

Unfortunately, i don't have that chance. That's life for you.

[Agdune]

Pathos: I never said the Latino girl was sexualised, just like I've asserted that the dancing girls aren't sexualised, I've not made a direct statement on her once so far. My actual opinion on the matter is that the two are almost exactly the same in spirit and intention. Just kids being dressed up and doing stuff, with other people getting angry about it because they can't stop thinking about it from a sexual mindset and are just launching off into the same unthinking "soccer mom: moral crusader" mindset we've all seen and ridiculed 10,000 times. My beef with you in particular comes from your irrational hatred of one and blithe acceptance of the other, on the grounds that you think one's somehow dirty and the other's somehow not.

You've decided that a single image of a girl at a carnival is fine. That's cool and all, but you've attributed an awful lot to a lone picture, stuff that you've had to have just stick on there from your own preconceptions. That's generalising, but we can live with that. You say it's okay for her to dress like that because she's directly imitating others.
Then we have a video of a group of girls dancing. You've decided arbitrarily that it's promoting fertility and sexualisation, with your wording actually suggesting (Through omission, so I can forgive it, it's just poor structure) that dancing competitions exist to promote sexualisation of kids. You state it's not okay for these girls because the concept they're imitating isn't exactly like the source material. You conclude that it's all about sexualisation and then you start throwing up whatever you feel like to justify it, presumably in the hopes some of it would stick. You never responded to my question on where you got the idea they were doing it to try and attract adult males, you seem to have dropped the natural/artificial thing, you havn't said anything about where you're getting the context for the carnivals (it sure as shit can't be the solitary picture), the whole 'red underwear' thing just evaporated when you were called out on it... if anything, I'd say you were the one trolling, except I know deep down that you're really trying hard to justify your position, but really can't.

Edit: I have alot of issues with Zombie's post aswell, but I can't spend all day on this thread, I have to do some schoolwork sometime. Suffice to say that

These girls are being objectified to the point to where they aren't human, anymore.

is a pretty good example of what I was getting at a thousand posts prior to this. My responce for now is: No.

[Vector]

And i think it would be better if i had a chance to win a million dollars.

Unfortunately, i don't have that chance. That's life for you.

... So what you're trying to say is that their dancing on stage like a bunch of trained piglets, being sexy and spending a lot of time under the private eye, is Predestined Fate and the sort of thing you have as much control over as winning the lottery?

Oooookay.

[smigenboger]

Intentionally or not, that does nearly blatantly put one into that mindset, or strongly suggests it.

If you have your pants half off in prison, because that was your suburban thugs 'style', you'll find that has a horrible context doing that there.

Chappelle had a great bit on that, with a girl saying 'just cuz I'm dressed this way doesn't make me a hooker' and he saying something along the lines of 'then don't make it suggest you are'

[Neruz]

And i think it would be better if i had a chance to win a million dollars.

Unfortunately, i don't have that chance. That's life for you.

... So what you're trying to say is that their dancing on stage like a bunch of trained piglets, being sexy and spending a lot of time under the private eye, is Predestined Fate and the sort of thing you have as much control over as winning the lottery?

Oooookay.

Trained piglets? What?

You people are getting more absurd with every post.

[Vector]

Trained piglets? What?

You people are getting more absurd with every post.

Sorry, I always get a bit of cognitive dissonance when I watch that thing.  "Are these little girls or something else?"  They don't register as little girls.  They register as... I dunno what, but it's not little girls.

[Neruz]

Then all i can honestly say is that you have issues.

They're dancing, they're dressed up, they're ovbiously enjoying every second of it. Who am i to start hurling sexual undertones and screaming about impurity?

To suggest that they're somehow being dehumanized is just absurd.