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[Draco18s]

I agree, I just twiddled with the forumla and the first couple values were ok, nothing extravagant in, nothing extravagant out.  But then using slightly more valuable materials and finer quality the value started to skyrocket.  It's all due to the multiplication between the Average Values: once the average value of the furniture (which can get a lot higher much faser) surpasses a base multiplier of ~20 (bronze and superior quality) the base item is worth 200.  Multiply again with the average tile value (between 1 and 30ish, unengraved) and you reach thousands, depending on stone type and if its smoothed or not.

And then you only divide by 2.

Figuring that everything multiplies and multiplies further you're going to want to divide by 25 at the very least.  That'd give us prices of 20, 28, and 208 or so.  That'd make it much easier to have meager rooms for the peasants and require metals for most furniture in noble's quarters (the cheapest being a multiplier of 2 (lead, nickle, copper), followed by obsidian, Trifle pewter at 4, then Fine pewter, Bronze, Galena, and Clear Glass at 5.  If we replace all the obsidian furniture in our example broken-formula room with bronze furniture, the values rises to 346 or so, a "plain room."  If we rise to silver or iron (and iron is ungodly common, what with all them gobos coming every year) then we can get it to 692, which is decent.

Rose gold furniture gets us to 1591, just barely grand (a room decked out in rose gold cabnitry would be grand by my standards, even if it WAS a broom closet).

Steel and Gold raise us to 2000 even, a nice great room.  Decked out in pure platinum, we get 2768, low end grand (and I agree!).  Raw adamantine is just enough to pop us to 17300 and into the royal sweetness.

[Draco18s]

Also keep those values in mind that there was no engraving or decorating going on, as well as a limited number of furniture pieces (3), so outfitting your nobles will be easier than REQUIRING you to build them golden walls and golden chests and whatnot.  It was also a very very small room.

But all the totals made sense.

[Puzzlemaker]

Hmm.

A few things.

If this is formula-ized, it wont be the value of the room, it would be the value of the room for living in.  The actual "Value" of a room should stay close to the same, at least the furniture's value shouldn't change based on the room.  The values of smoothing and stuff, maybe it should stay as part of the room value calc, maybe not.  The value of engraving, for sure.

Anyway, so instead of value, how about rating.  The rating of a room is how much your dwarves want to live in it / use it.

A room with very valuable stuff in it should have a higher rating.  A very large room should have a higher rating.  But should they have any relation in terms of rating?

Well lets see.  If you had a very small room with lots of valuable stuff, it should be worth a bit.  But it should take a hit based on it's size; even if you have very expensive furniture.  If you have a huge room, but with crappy stuff, it should take a hit.  Even though it's huge, the furniture isn't very good.  Both of those could be calculated just by calculating the average value of each tile in the room, including the furniture on the tile, etc.

So the average value of a room would work.  BUT.  A huge room should still have a higher rating then a smaller one, even if they have the same average.  So there has to be some formula.

The average would be the total value of the room divided by it's size.

There should be some constant, C.

So maybe the formula:

TotalRoomSize + AverageValue * C

would work, and would be the rooms rating.

[Draco18s]

Had to fiddle with this a bit more so that masterwork wooden furniture in a 4x1 cell wasn't worth hardly anything (it's still meager, but not as bad as before).

An unsmoothed 4x1 grey-rock room, 4 pieces of wood furniture:
value: 6.6

Smoothed: 25.6

Masterwork furniture: (add) 39.9

Double the size (4x2): (add) 21

So it's still a little brutal on the low end, but using better materials and more proficient craftsmen and things rise considerably.

For example:

4x2, smooth, masterwork bronze furniture (except bed):
217.8

10x6 smooth dining room, basic grey rock dining set (60 pieces):
345

Noble dining area, smoothed, fine grey rock furniture (3 pieces):
286

Link to XLS of fiddlings

[Derakon]

Keep in mind that Toady plans to make room values relative at some point - so if every dwarf is living in cheap quarters, then the one room you have whose bed isn't made of spit and splinters starts looking pretty dang good. On the flip side, if every dwarf has his own palace with water and magma on tap, then the king's gonna be very demanding when his own accommodations are made.

Aside from that, another possibility to consider would be making room value scale inversely with fortress wealth. A rich fort with cruddy rooms is, after all, much worse than a poor fort with cruddy rooms.

[Puzzlemaker]

The XLS link isn't working; I would love to look at it, and now that I am home I might fiddle with it some too.

[Draco18s]

Link fixed.  Name of the file on the server was missing an 's' (RoomValue.xls vs. RoomValues.xls).  Also had to remove a hack I'd accidentally left in to get the value of 60 pieces of furniture.

And yes, I know Toady plans to do something about relative room values, but I was bored and was thinking about this thread.

This is probably also a good place to start so that room values don't get widely out of control when you add a single masterwork to a crap room.

If you have a grey rock room, unsmoothed, full of basic furniture EXCEPT a masterwork obsidian coffer the price is about 428.  Even if we assume that the average room is better than basic quality, it's not going to account for that extra 360 from the obsidian coffer.  If you had a run down apartment, but had a really nice bed, you wouldn't think the apartment was all that much better.  You'd just really like that bed.

[Draco18s]

So the average value of a room would work.  BUT.  A huge room should still have a higher rating then a smaller one, even if they have the same average.  So there has to be some formula.

The average would be the total value of the room divided by it's size.

Took that into account.  At least to some degree.  It's hard to get more opulent by making a bigger room when you're dealing with excessively expensive furniture (iRL: there's a poitn at which people stop noticing the size of the room and are too impressed by the wealth of furniture).

Basically what I did:

(AverageFurnitureValue * AverageTileValue + RawWealthValue) / 25 + RoomSizeBonus

AverageTileValue is slightly weighted towards walls to counter the fact that a larger room has significantly more floor tiles, which are worth less.  This average ends up being about 0.5 to 1.5 dwarfbucks more than the value of one wall tile, depending on the size of the room (final value increases by about 3% from this).

RoomSizeBonus is an weird number:
BareRoomValue / NumTiles * NumberFloorTiles

BareRoomValue does not include engravings, so (BareRoomValue / NumTiles) is basically the average tile value without furniture and engravings (given the same weigting towards walls, as before--boosts the end result of this calculation by about 7%), which is then multiplied by the amount of floor space.

A rough grey rock room gets just over it's floor space as a bonus (118%), smoothing it pushes it to 5 times its space (518%; this is due to grey rock being worth 1 and smoothed grey rock being worth 4/5 for floors/walls, rough/smooth obsidian will have even higher values).  Different materials multiply this as well.  A very large room with hardly any furniture (or low quality of furniture) can find as much as 90%^* of its "worth" from space, whereas an unfinished hole in the dirt will find most of its value (up to 90%^*) from furniture--depending on quality.

^*These are observed percentages for likely rooms, a 1x4 room with 5 pieces of raw adamantine furniture pushes to 99.3% value from furniture.  Vice versa, two pieces of basic furniture in a 20x6 room gets 96.8% of its value from size.  No furniture is 97.6%, due to my numberator and denominator: total value of a room will always be greater than the size bonus, and the size bonus is never 0.

[Puzzlemaker]

Nice!

Very cool formula you got there!

[Draco18s]

I know, it's wierd. o..O
It's not something I'd have come up with myself without the starting seed I had.
Also, Excel makes number crunching so much easier.

[Quift]

I like the sound of this.

I woudl also like to have some feedback on the rather extensice posts I made in the Wages thread. Could you please pop by there.