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[Jokerman-EXE]

Vector, I want you to know that I'm slamming my head into a wall in the hopes that maybe you'll feel some echo of the pain and start to understand what the fuck I'm feeling every time you post. Maybe if I go ahead and bold what the fuck I was trying to say:

.......

Because your scummy self is so likely to be helped by the town, because I'd be worried about a "guard" chewing up my theoretical cabal buddy, and because I'm THAT TRANSPARENT?

(Hint: all of the above are false.)

No, man.  I just happen to be online, now, and wanted to take care of things sooner rather than later.

You said this sarcastically, and yet Org flips town. What is unnatural about me thinking something of this, Vector?

I believe you are confusing me with other people, cause the only posts I've brought against you thus far are this one we're discussing and the one that had like ten quotes that pointed out what I perceived as buddying. All have been pertinent and contained proof.

[Solifuge]

At the risk of screwing myself over yet again, I feel inspired to share this:

Vector, as scum, would have had nothing to gain from supporting me against Org. The safe thing to do would have been to "see the logic behind Jim's argument" and hop in line. However, she instead went out on a limb, supported the less-popular Arena Candidate, and so on, taking a reputation hit along with it (for the appearance of buddying) and so on.

Yes, it could have been a scum ploy to get me to want to trust her... but that would be a terrible choice, since the cost of one player's trust would be significant suspicion from half of the town. As Cabal, she'd surely have seen that, and gone with whatever earned her the most favor from the most players. Thus, I'd posit that she is most likely Tower.

Also, I'm still eagerly awaiting Ottofer and Leafsnail's responses. For now, I'm going to get on that Assist/Affinity Cheatsheet I promised if I didn't die.

[Vector]

Because your scummy self is so likely to be helped by the town, because I'd be worried about a "guard" chewing up my theoretical cabal buddy, and because I'm THAT TRANSPARENT?

You said this sarcastically, and yet Org flips town. What is unnatural about me thinking something of this, Vector?

All right, I understand now.  Thank you for the clarification.

There's no reason to fear what amounts to a VT in combat, and the idea that I'd run out, forget what I was doing, and assist my "scumbuddy" like that is ludicrous.

It's unnatural for you to think something of it simply because of the absurdity of the situation--hence the sarcasm.

I am tower.  If you want to take me down, I suggest bringing some better arguments.

[Jokerman-EXE]

What's VT?

Unvote Vector. That last post, in addition to Solifuge's point (damn you and your logic, Solifuge) have given me pause. I'll see where it goes.

I don't have time to look over everyone's else's interactions right now, so I'll try to be back later tonight with accusations.

[Vector]

What's VT?

Vanilla Tower.  Someone with no role-granted combat boosts.

[JanusTwoface]

Suspicious things I've seen:

Spoiler: Jokerman-EXE (click to show/hide)

Reply #40 - Copies my votes directly
Reply #150 - Copies Jim Groovester's assist directly, right after his post
Reply #159 - Says that Vector was buddying Solifuge not the other way, but still assited Org

Not terribly suspicious right now, other than the copying other people's vote/assist.

Spoiler: Criptfeind (click to show/hide)

Reply #36 - Would put less useful players first, then votes Leafsnail and Vector, OOC RV question
Reply #86 - Vector =/= Victor, can't tell if he was random voting or not based on previous point
Reply# 89 - "Solifuge: Tell me your powers so I can kill you."
Reply #99 - Basically trying to seperate votes and lynching, I'm not sure why
Reply #199 - No idea where's he's going with this... People can't change their minds maybe?
Reply #213 - Confusing post misreading Vector (according to Criptfeind)
Reply #217 - Repeats previous, backs down (I think?)
Reply #225 - Really backs down, a lot closer than I at first thought
Reply #241 - Waffling on who to assist

I can't understand you for the life of my and you're not scum hunting too well, but I'm less sure that you're scum.

Spoiler: Toaster (click to show/hide)

Reply #228 - No assist although doesn't think Solifuge is truly town and Org is unreadable

Doesn't really seem suspicious.

Spoiler: Vector (click to show/hide)

Reply #60 - Solifuge vote is on gut feeling, also eats scum
Reply #64 - Backs down on Solifuge, claims irritated townie
Reply #127 - Jumps immeditely to assist Solifuge

Back and forth on Solifuge, nothing much more.

Spoiler: Ottofar (click to show/hide)

Reply #66 - Third set of votes on Jim and Org (both proven town now), no scum hunting
Reply #106 - Tries to marginalize random votes
Reply #169 - Continues to lurk
Reply #172 - Continues to lurk
Reply #204 - Assists Solifuge, continues to lurk
Reply #220 - Lurk lurk lurk, promises more later post tomorrow (Sept 12)
Reply #263 - Lurk lurk lurk, it's now Sept 14 and there's still no more later post
Reply #264 - Gets around to more later, weak attacks on Jokerman-EXE that have been covered

Lurk lurk lurk lurk lurk.  More later promised, not delivered.  You deserve to be in the ring.

Spoiler: Lonewolf I (click to show/hide)

Reply #32 - Start with attack on lurkers
Reply #95 - Request kitten pics
Reply #184 - "I choose to go along with Org's claim mainly out of curiosity"

Assist was odd.

Spoiler: Leafsnail (click to show/hide)

Reply #111 - Claims he forgot the game, says helpful Org is definately scum (he was being helpful?)
Reply #119 - Continues on his lolwut Org kick
Reply #194 - More useful, but mostly comments rather than attacks
Reply #224 - Weak attack on Jim Groovester, attack on Org's false claim

Lurking something fierce, attacks Org mostly on lolwut and being too useful.  Attacks on both known tower mages.

Spoiler: Solifuge (click to show/hide)

Reply #42 - Votes Webadict
Reply #44 - Okay with being in the ring
Reply #52 - Claims Webadict vote was a test, beginning of kitten talk
Reply #58 - Essentialy an OMGUS on Vector, albeit delayed
Reply #63 - Asks about affinities (actually second time, persistent)
Reply #110 - Vote based on minimal evidence and a gut feeling on Jim
Reply #158 - Happy to be in the ring, also looking for Cabal tells in the battle (really?), very wordy post

Webadict vote was odd, really seems interested in affinities (I didn't notice both times earlier), tries to block assists based on looking for Cabal tells.

Spoiler: Jetsquirrel (click to show/hide)

Reply #67 - Single vote on Vector, gut feeling says doesn't trust her gut feeling
Reply #70 - Asked to elaborate, we only get a one sentence gut feeling
Reply #72 - Several post back and forth about Vector's gender, doesn't really add much
Reply #103 - Oddly formatted, editted post with basically no game content
Reply #105 - Barely better, still minimal content
Reply #162 - Goes purely off other's evidence, nothing new
Reply #167 - Agrees that passive is bad, doesn't do anything about it
Reply #207 - No assist with no reason
Reply #273 - lurk lurk lurk

Either scum or very new.  Needs to learn to scum hunt effectively now or go in the ring.


Long story short: Ottofar, Leafsnail, Solifuge, and Jetsquirrel are the most suspicious, more or less in that order.

[Lonewolf I]

Assist phase done.  Back to business.

JetSquirrel - Have you never read through any games Vector played?  I find it hard to believe that you're only now figuring this out.

Since i admit i suck in mafia games now (played 2 games Begginer magia 1 and wizard duel 1) i cannot make proper decisions and badnwagoning people gets you in trouble most of the time. so i voted for her? to look how she and other people would react towards me. and thats all i can think off

Covering excuses for poor play amidst your reaction to her gender could be interpreted as a primer intended to cause us to subconciously forgive your mistakes ahead of time.  Why shouldn't I interpret it that way?

How the hell do i know which mafia games vector played in and for the gender thing look down

so i voted for her?

Why the question mark?  It's a statement of fact.  Why would you be questioning your own actions?  Are you afraid you attacked the wrong person, since Jim called you out on it?

because then i was confused and didn't know that Vector was a girl and Jim typed SHE so i thought that was a grammar error, so i couldnt say for sure that she was a she or a he.

Missed this answer when I went back and noticed that the assist phase had started.  Both are acceptable, though the editing is poor form.

ehhh.. il try to get some reasoning behind it

So you didn't have any reasoning behind it when you actually did it?  Or was your reasoning then that both were townies and it didn't matter which one died, scum?  Jetsquirrel

Solifuge and Ottofar - Why shouldn't we pit our two most likely lurky players together in the first round for a nice, cathartic duel to the death?

Toaster - We were the only two players to resort to hex, and we both picked the exact same color.  Imagine the odds.

I shall make mine a bit darker.  Keep your "Garnet".

Unvote Ottofar

Solifuge - Pics of your kitten or you get to risk your life in the arena.  I love kitties. :-P

JetSquirrel - Have you never read through any games Vector played?  I find it hard to believe that you're only now figuring this out.

Since i admit i suck in mafia games now (played 2 games Begginer magia 1 and wizard duel 1) i cannot make proper decisions and badnwagoning people gets you in trouble most of the time. so i voted for her? to look how she and other people would react towards me. and thats all i can think off

Covering excuses for poor play amidst your reaction to her gender could be interpreted as a primer intended to cause us to subconciously forgive your mistakes ahead of time.  Why shouldn't I interpret it that way?

so i voted for her?

Why the question mark?  It's a statement of fact.  Why would you be questioning your own actions?  Are you afraid you attacked the wrong person, since Jim called you out on it?

These are your only two posts of Day 1.  In the first, you RV Solifuge and Ottofar with a question.  Ottofar never answers you, and yet you drop your vote on him.  Wanting to use your vote elsewhere is fine, but you completely drop your question to Ottofar.  If you don't care about following up, it tells the world that you don't really care about your question.  Therefore, either your scumhunting has no teeth or you already know his alignment (ergo you are scum.)

I see RVS mostly as filler to get people to start dropping tells.  If I see someone doing so, and no one's called them out for it, I see nothing wrong with dropping my RVS question in order to focus on pursuing them.

Assist Org with a defensive earthen barrier.

Neither Org nor Solifuge is striking me as scummy, and I see more value in this first battle in watching where the assists fall and in what order, and analyzing them afterwards.  I choose to go along with Org's claim mainly out of curiosity.

This just bugs me.  If you don't think of either one as scum, why work to condemn one?  You aren't required to assist.  (See note later)

I don't think anyone is scum at this point, and both Solifuge and Org have a tendency to not be useful.

I'm not allowed to assist someone as a personal experiment to see what information can be gleaned from the game mechanics, if any, about their alignment and their claim?  Somebody was going to die.  I didn't care which one.  Org had more info to test against.

I'll pick my attack on Jetsquirrel back up when the next vote stage starts, assuming no one else (looking at you, Vector) does anything suspicious during assists.

Lonewolf I, why not pick up your attack on Jetsquirrel now? There's no gap in discussion, and since you're not waiting to see what the results of the duel are going to be there's no reason to wait until the next Vote Phase to start.

Well, I was going to wait because I felt that scumhunting in the assist phase should focus on those going into the battle and anyone who makes controversial assists.  If Jetsquirrel does not provide an excellent reason for not assisting, however, he will enter the latter category and come back up to the top of my priorities.

Lazy.  Unsubstantiated attack on Vector.  Unwillingness to commit.

Most of the time when I get accused of lazy attacks, it's because all of my suspicions have already been addressed by others, and I have nothing to add.  What you perceive as a lack of commitment in me is what I perceive as lack of bandwagoning in others.  I don't vote if I have nothing to add to an attack, unless I believe that they are confirmed scum (or town in this case, since assist votes are helpful).

If you want to twist what I just said around and say that I voted Org without having something to add, please go back and look at my second answer to this post.  I did have something to add, but it was related to his claim, rather than his alignment.

Is it necessary for the doc to protect?  For the cop to inspect?

Your assist is a tool to hunt scum, to defend those you don't believe are scum, or simply to test the waters in an effort to find someone's affinity.  Not using it is usually, if not always, a waste of potential data.

Now quit stalling for time and give a complete explanation of your reasoning behind this action.  A gut feeling, or lack of one, isn't going to cut it.

Now you're just looking for excuses.  I find it ironic that you would accuse someone of stalling here when you admitted not long before you were waiting for events to unfold (AKA let others do scumhunting for you).

Get your battle wand out, scum.

And events unfolded, I called him out on his not assisting and he has yet to provide an adequate explanation.  Hence my vote on him, and the outstanding request for an explanation.

Now, I said I wanted to save assist analysis for after the dust cleared.  Let's analyze!

Assist Solifuge with Fire.

Vector jumps the gun on assisting, then withdraws.

Assist Org with Water Healing

Jim responds with an opposing assist, apparently out of anger.

Assist Org with Water Healing.

Jokerman copypastes Jim.  Stacking heals.  Jim and Org both flipped town.  Buddying?

Assist Solifuge's speed with Wind.

Vector sticks to her guns.

Assist Org with a defensive earthen barrier.

I assist Org FOR SCIENCE!!!

Assist Solifuge's defence with earth.

Leafsnail jumps in, directly opposing me.

Assist Solifuge's Defense with Earth.

Otto mimics Leafsnail

No assist is this also good?

Jetsquirrel declines to assist without reasoning.  First thing that struck me as legitimately suspicious at the time.

No assist.

Toaster declines assistance, with adequate reasoning.

Assist Solifuge's Defense with Earth

Yet another copy from Leaf and Otto.  Seems to also be for science.  Maybe.

I will Assist Org's healing with water.

Appears to be voting to keep the battlefield level, on a gut feeling that Org is town.

Jokerman's already been asked about his copy-pasting Jim, so:

Ottofar, Janus - Exactly why did you stack buffs with Leafsnail?

[JanusTwoface]

Ottofar, Janus - Exactly why did you stack buffs with Leafsnail?

At that point Org already had 3x Healing.  The only way that Solifuge would win (in my opinion) was for him to be equally hard to kill.  He already had two Defense boosts, so I added a third.

[Toaster]

(Trimming this down a bit because it's getting huge)

I see RVS mostly as filler to get people to start dropping tells.  If I see someone doing so, and no one's called them out for it, I see nothing wrong with dropping my RVS question in order to focus on pursuing them.

Why can't you keep your RV question going and pursue the new lead?  Use FoS, bold, underline, whatever- you can still grill someone without voting them.  Dropping attacks without even acknowledging that is scummy, pure and simple.

Assist Org with a defensive earthen barrier.

Neither Org nor Solifuge is striking me as scummy, and I see more value in this first battle in watching where the assists fall and in what order, and analyzing them afterwards.  I choose to go along with Org's claim mainly out of curiosity.

This just bugs me.  If you don't think of either one as scum, why work to condemn one?  You aren't required to assist.  (See note later)

I don't think anyone is scum at this point, and both Solifuge and Org have a tendency to not be useful.

I'm not allowed to assist someone as a personal experiment to see what information can be gleaned from the game mechanics, if any, about their alignment and their claim?  Somebody was going to die.  I didn't care which one.  Org had more info to test against.

Did you get that information you wanted?

I'll pick my attack on Jetsquirrel back up when the next vote stage starts, assuming no one else (looking at you, Vector) does anything suspicious during assists.

Lonewolf I, why not pick up your attack on Jetsquirrel now? There's no gap in discussion, and since you're not waiting to see what the results of the duel are going to be there's no reason to wait until the next Vote Phase to start.

Well, I was going to wait because I felt that scumhunting in the assist phase should focus on those going into the battle and anyone who makes controversial assists.  If Jetsquirrel does not provide an excellent reason for not assisting, however, he will enter the latter category and come back up to the top of my priorities.

Lazy.  Unsubstantiated attack on Vector.  Unwillingness to commit.

Most of the time when I get accused of lazy attacks, it's because all of my suspicions have already been addressed by others, and I have nothing to add.  What you perceive as a lack of commitment in me is what I perceive as lack of bandwagoning in others.  I don't vote if I have nothing to add to an attack, unless I believe that they are confirmed scum (or town in this case, since assist votes are helpful).

If you want to twist what I just said around and say that I voted Org without having something to add, please go back and look at my second answer to this post.  I did have something to add, but it was related to his claim, rather than his alignment.

Your attack wasn't lazy- your lack of attack was.  You're giving off a strong aura that you can't be bothered to scumhunt, and are only paying lipservice to it so you're not obvscum.  Compounding this, you move to attack people for the same reason- weak participation.  It's a valid attack, but it has no bite when you're guilty of it yourself.

Is it necessary for the doc to protect?  For the cop to inspect?

Your assist is a tool to hunt scum, to defend those you don't believe are scum, or simply to test the waters in an effort to find someone's affinity.  Not using it is usually, if not always, a waste of potential data.

Now quit stalling for time and give a complete explanation of your reasoning behind this action.  A gut feeling, or lack of one, isn't going to cut it.

Now you're just looking for excuses.  I find it ironic that you would accuse someone of stalling here when you admitted not long before you were waiting for events to unfold (AKA let others do scumhunting for you).

Get your battle wand out, scum.

And events unfolded, I called him out on his not assisting and he has yet to provide an adequate explanation.  Hence my vote on him, and the outstanding request for an explanation.

See above.

[Mephansteras]

Jetsquirrel has requested a replacement. Hopefully we'll find one soon.

[JanusTwoface]

Leafsnail.  You haven't posted here for three days, despite being on the forums.  Either play the game or get a replacement.

Ottofar, you've promised to do more and completely failed to do so.  Be more active.

Jetsquirrel has requested a replacement. Hopefully we'll find one soon.

As much as I hesitate to suggest it, you could always try Webadict.  He's been posting here anyways.

[IronyOwl]

I could replace him. I've been regretting not joining this since it began.

[Mephansteras]

I could replace him. I've been regretting not joining this since it began.

Cool. I will send you your details.

IronyOwl has replaced JetSquirrel

[JanusTwoface]

In addition to anything else that comes up in your readthrough, could you answer this: what di you think your assist would have been (not knowing Orgs alignment)?

[Toaster]

Where the hell is everyone?


To everyone:  I'll be out of town Friday and coming back mid-Sunday, so I'll be limited to brief phone posting between then, if that.