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[IronyOwl]

He either has a peculiar way of pressuring me or is scum going for a lightning round. It seems a bit audacious to be the second, but pressuring someone by acting scummy is a terrible plan.

I'd assume that it is I to whom you refer as pressuring someone by acting scummy.  Prove it.  What have I done that's scummy?

You're attempting to apply pressure using terrible logic and jumping to conclusions. The only real conclusions are that you don't mean what you say, and therefore need to be ignored, or are deliberately trying to get someone lynched using any excuse you can manage.

It could also be that you're bad at this, but I know that's not the case.

Nothing you've done convinces me that you're not scum.

Likewise.

[JanusTwoface]

You're attempting to apply pressure using terrible logic and jumping to conclusions. The only real conclusions are that you don't mean what you say, and therefore need to be ignored, or are deliberately trying to get someone lynched using any excuse you can manage.

Terrible logic?  Point it out.

Also, I'm not trying to get someone lynched.  I'm trying to get you lynched.  And I'm not trying to get you lynched using any excuse.  I'm trying to get you lynched because you are scum.

[webadict]

But maybe Janus or Wuba. I don't believe I've raaaged at them yet.

Psh. We've raged in other games.

Considering the hammers, I'm not so sure tossing votes around like their going out of style is the best plan...

Web, to answer your question: you. Every game we've been in or I've followed of yours, you've been scum or an early lynched non-scum. And not only do you have a habit of being scum, you have a habit of being scum that is very difficult to lynch. Also, the purple is there so you know you don't have to read it.

But despite that, I don't think your scum for the moment.

Look, is it MY fault I'm so good at this game? Of course.

So, you'd want to send me away because I am good as scum or because I get lynched as non-scum? I dunno. I don't believe you've watched a fair amount of games, because there are very few games where I actually get lynched, even when I'm merely a few votes away. So, you've either seen very few games I'm in, you haven't been seeing the right games, or you're lying.

GG opens with pointless flavor and a FoS on Wuba with a question of reasonable substance.
Janus immediately randomvotes IronyOwl.
IronyOwl dismisses Janus' No Substance with some No Substance, then IronyOwl IS A MEAN JERK WHO IS MEAN to me.
Wuba is arrogant. What a shock. He then asks a silly question to GG.
I answer THE MEAN JERK WHO IS MEAN and he unvotes me. He then votes GG and asks about Meta. Ewww, Meta.
Janus snarks at Wuba then accuses me of being the partner of a MEAN JERK WHO IS MEAN.
He hen herps and derps at my post.
Irony votes him for being derp.
GG points out maybe we shouldn't vote like mad in a game with 3-man hammers. Fair enough, despite the vengekill mechanic.

Stream of thought like this are generally too much to be useful to anyone else (except perhaps the bare minimum of use to you, I can't speak to that).

Unfortunately, you're wrong on two parts. One, I do wish to indulge on the going-ons inside people's minds, and two, during Day 2, we can read everyone's posts again. So shut up.

GG points out maybe we shouldn't vote like mad in a game with 3-man hammers. Fair enough, despite the vengekill mechanic.

Agree but disagree? This was an over-explanation.

But maybe Janus or Wuba.

Obviously not you, you're scum buddies.  Have to leave one townie out though to not be *too* obvious.

WIFOM AHOY! Clearly he wouldn't pick one of his scumbuddies if he were because he is scum! In fact, he pretty much just confirmed the two he listed as town!

I need to know if this is sarcastic or not. Because there's some hitting that needs to go on now.

[JanusTwoface]

Unfortunately, you're wrong on two parts. One, I do wish to indulge on the going-ons inside people's minds, and two, during Day 2, we can read everyone's posts again. So shut up.

Great idea if one of these ever makes it to day 2.  Even better if anyone actually ever did this...  And no.  I won't.  Scum are like fascists, always trying to suppress peoples...

You feel like you're sidelining.  Much more than previous games I've played with you at the very least.  This is scummy.

[GlyphGryph]

So, you've either seen very few games I'm in, you haven't been seeing the right games

I think these two are the case. I've got to be honest, I haven't actually read many games. I think I've seen you lynched twice, maybe, total, and neither time you were scum (and one of those is my quick bastard). So you're correct in that I haven't seen you lynched many times.

Stream of thought like this are generally too much to be useful to anyone else (except perhaps the bare minimum of use to you, I can't speak to that).

What the hell are you talking about? It doesn't prove he's town, but it certainly gives us something to work with. Don't just critique - offer constructive criticism. What do you want him to do instead?

I do have to say though, It's pretty ballsy tunneling on your scumpartner like you are. And if that's not what you're doing... well, that's certainly what it looks like from here.

[JanusTwoface]

What the hell are you talking about? It doesn't prove he's town, but it certainly gives us something to work with. Don't just critique - offer constructive criticism. What do you want him to do instead?

It gives the impression of being useful.  Not actually being useful.  And it's not my job to improve his game, it's his.  It's my job to find scum.

I do have to say though, It's pretty ballsy tunneling on your scumpartner like you are. And if that's not what you're doing... well, that's certainly what it looks like from here.

If it certainly looks like it then why aren't you voting one of us?

[IronyOwl]

You're attempting to apply pressure using terrible logic and jumping to conclusions. The only real conclusions are that you don't mean what you say, and therefore need to be ignored, or are deliberately trying to get someone lynched using any excuse you can manage.

Terrible logic?  Point it out.

Spoiler: I thought I did (click to show/hide)

Nope.  Not really.

Whether or not this happens

Statistically seems likely.

So what, he's scum for not accepting the inevitable?

(p.s. fuck you)

Profane Pandarsenic is scummy Pandarsenic.

Unvote GlyphGryph, Vote JanusTwoface. This is the least vitriolic I've seen Pandar in some time.

I won't think they're a townie at the time,

Nope, you'll know they are.  You already do.

Because he feels his track record might not hold and he is, in fact, Pandarsenic? Really?

so your argument is invalid.

Non sequitur.

Fair enough.

But maybe Janus or Wuba.

Obviously not you, you're scum buddies.  Have to leave one townie out though to not be *too* obvious.

WIFOM AHOY! Clearly he wouldn't pick one of his scumbuddies if he were because he is scum! In fact, he pretty much just confirmed the two he listed as town!

I don't believe I've raaaged at them yet.

You didn't at me, we've only been in one Vengeful.  Webadict hasn't played in one yet.  So... duh?

Are you accusing him of being scummy or just stating the obvious?

But to go over this again:

You didn't like Pandar's answers, enough to call me (and him) scum for unvoting him over them. The answers you took issue with included:

-Stating he might or might not tunnel and then vengekill/be vengekilled by a townie, which you consider "statistically likely." I'd say this was unrelated, but it's basically all you've got.

-Including "(p.s. fuck you)" in his response, since Pandar's only foul-mouthed when he's scum. This is both blatantly false, at least in any game I've seen him in, and means the opposite in this case, since he's far, far less angry than usual.

-I dearly hope "I won't think they're townie at the time I tunnel them" isn't one of the things you're using against him, but anything goes at this point.

-A fairly irrelevant argument. No real indication of why it specifically makes him scum.

-His declining to list me among the people he might rage against this game. Added on to this is, I kid you not, the notion that he didn't list everyone else in the game because:
A. Would not list his scum buddy
B. Needed to throw a townie in there to make it seem less obvious

But clearly, he wouldn't list his scumbuddy for precisely that reason or leave out just his buddy because he'd know we knew that, so this basically confirms GlyphGryph as town and me as scum.

Also, I'm not trying to get someone lynched.  I'm trying to get you lynched.  And I'm not trying to get you lynched using any excuse.  I'm trying to get you lynched because you are scum.

Excellent, Mr. Holmes. If you would explain why, we can wrap this up post haste.

But maybe Janus or Wuba.

Obviously not you, you're scum buddies.  Have to leave one townie out though to not be *too* obvious.

WIFOM AHOY! Clearly he wouldn't pick one of his scumbuddies if he were because he is scum! In fact, he pretty much just confirmed the two he listed as town!

I need to know if this is sarcastic or not. Because there's some hitting that needs to go on now.

It was not. Fire away.


Forgot this earlier:

GlyphGryph, it's "we're" not "where." Also, which players are you familiar with, and which are new to you?

No, you're wrong. It's where. I forgive you though. Everyone makes mistakes. Anyways to answer your question - Everyone else in this game was around and active around the same time I was, but I've probably seen the least of you. So same question back at you.

I'm not sure I've ever seen you play.
Janus and Pandar I'm fairly accustomed to, but not as much as I'd like. Pandar more than Janus, I'd say.
webadict I've seen a little of, but not terribly much.

[JanusTwoface]

-Stating he might or might not tunnel and then vengekill/be vengekilled by a townie, which you consider "statistically likely." I'd say this was unrelated, but it's basically all you've got.

No one has much of anything.  We're only a few hours again.  That's the entire point of the early game.

-Including "(p.s. fuck you)" in his response, since Pandar's only foul-mouthed when he's scum. This is both blatantly false, at least in any game I've seen him in, and means the opposite in this case, since he's far, far less angry than usual.

Those two words were more than 5% of his total word count at that point.

-I dearly hope "I won't think they're townie at the time I tunnel them" isn't one of the things you're using against him, but anything goes at this point.

Huh?  So far as I can parse this, it looks like you're adding things that I haven't even said to the case...  How is that helpful? (to town, I know how it's helpful to you)

-A fairly irrelevant argument. No real indication of why it specifically makes him scum.

I'm not sure if he's scum.  He's scummy enough, but he almost always is.  I think you're scum.  All of that was in answer to your question "Did you not like his answer?".  I didn't.  Doesn't necessarily make him scum.

But clearly, he wouldn't list his scumbuddy for precisely that reason or leave out just his buddy because he'd know we knew that, so this basically confirms GlyphGryph as town and me as scum.

Did you just say that you're scum? ... Huh.

Excellent, Mr. Holmes. If you would explain why, we can wrap this up post haste.

You're the only one I don't have to convince...

[webadict]

Unfortunately, you're wrong on two parts. One, I do wish to indulge on the going-ons inside people's minds, and two, during Day 2, we can read everyone's posts again. So shut up.

Great idea if one of these ever makes it to day 2.  Even better if anyone actually ever did this...  And no.  I won't.  Scum are like fascists, always trying to suppress peoples...

You feel like you're sidelining.  Much more than previous games I've played with you at the very least.  This is scummy.

Actually, I feel left out. All I really see are a bunch of people going after each other. I think

EVERYONE NEEDS TO SETTLE DOWN

so that we can stop bickering over nothing. We have infinite time, guys. The faster we try to lynch someone, the more likely we are to fail.

So, while I have your attention, Janus, why are you trying to blitzkrieg someone? (Are you going after Toaster or Pandarsenic, because I'm still confused.) It's one thing to be aggressive, but whatever you've decided to do isn't going to work. I am having enormous difficulty even beginning to understand a word you're saying.

So, you've either seen very few games I'm in, you haven't been seeing the right games

I think these two are the case. I've got to be honest, I haven't actually read many games. I think I've seen you lynched twice, maybe, total, and neither time you were scum (and one of those is my quick bastard). So you're correct in that I haven't seen you lynched many times.

Stream of thought like this are generally too much to be useful to anyone else (except perhaps the bare minimum of use to you, I can't speak to that).

What the hell are you talking about? It doesn't prove he's town, but it certainly gives us something to work with. Don't just critique - offer constructive criticism. What do you want him to do instead?

I do have to say though, It's pretty ballsy tunneling on your scumpartner like you are. And if that's not what you're doing... well, that's certainly what it looks like from here.

I wasn't lynched in... your... game...? OH GOD! But seriously, I'm hardly ever lynched. I'm more likely to be nightkilled on the third day. Meaning I can't lose this game!

But maybe Janus or Wuba.

Obviously not you, you're scum buddies.  Have to leave one townie out though to not be *too* obvious.

WIFOM AHOY! Clearly he wouldn't pick one of his scumbuddies if he were because he is scum! In fact, he pretty much just confirmed the two he listed as town!

I need to know if this is sarcastic or not. Because there's some hitting that needs to go on now.

It was not. Fire away.

I really have no idea how you could be this stupid as scum.

If I were to fancy a guess, I'd say the Town is Toaster IronyOwl (For some reason, I have been saying IronyOwl as Toaster. I'm not sure why.) and GlyphGryph, leaving JanusTwoface and Pandarsenic as the scum.

Bah. I need to go to bed. Anyhow, I'll get myself a good attack when I wake up. For now... assume a wizard did it. Also, calm down more. Everyone. As much fun as failing has been your last couple of games, I don't plan to lose this one.

[IronyOwl]

-Stating he might or might not tunnel and then vengekill/be vengekilled by a townie, which you consider "statistically likely." I'd say this was unrelated, but it's basically all you've got.

No one has much of anything.  We're only a few hours again.  That's the entire point of the early game.

So because it's a quick game, nonsense is alright? Huh?

-Including "(p.s. fuck you)" in his response, since Pandar's only foul-mouthed when he's scum. This is both blatantly false, at least in any game I've seen him in, and means the opposite in this case, since he's far, far less angry than usual.

Those two words were more than 5% of his total word count at that point.

Alright, but as you just said, we're early in the game. If your argument was that he was lurking or active lurking and therefore scum, why didn't you come out and say it instead of mentioning how vulgar he was? If your argument isn't that he's lurking or activelurking, what is it? That your first few words are the most critical?

It also doesn't explain why you think that in the first place. I don't think I've ever seen him not angry.

-I dearly hope "I won't think they're townie at the time I tunnel them" isn't one of the things you're using against him, but anything goes at this point.

Huh?  So far as I can parse this, it looks like you're adding things that I haven't even said to the case...  How is that helpful? (to town, I know how it's helpful to you)

I won't think they're a townie at the time,

Nope, you'll know they are.  You already do.

You don't remember this? It was around 7% of your total content at the time.

-A fairly irrelevant argument. No real indication of why it specifically makes him scum.

I'm not sure if he's scum.  He's scummy enough, but he almost always is.  I think you're scum.  All of that was in answer to your question "Did you not like his answer?".  I didn't.  Doesn't necessarily make him scum.

It's fairly implied, since the reason you think I'm scum is because I unvoted him without sufficient cause. So either he's scum, or he's acting scummy and I didn't care. You made it quite clear it was the former, but you might be able to change your story without too much difficulty.

But clearly, he wouldn't list his scumbuddy for precisely that reason or leave out just his buddy because he'd know we knew that, so this basically confirms GlyphGryph as town and me as scum.

Did you just say that you're scum? ... Huh.

I know you know what sarcasm is. And if you didn't, you'd immediately want to know why I thought GlyphGryph was town.

Good way to get out of explaining yourself though.

Excellent, Mr. Holmes. If you would explain why, we can wrap this up post haste.

You're the only one I don't have to convince...

So you're the other scum? That's a load off my mind, I thought it'd be a pain convincing Pandar not to bus me.

We have infinite time, guys. The faster we try to lynch someone, the more likely we are to fail.

I'd somehow forgotten about this. That's relieving.

But maybe Janus or Wuba.

Obviously not you, you're scum buddies.  Have to leave one townie out though to not be *too* obvious.

WIFOM AHOY! Clearly he wouldn't pick one of his scumbuddies if he were because he is scum! In fact, he pretty much just confirmed the two he listed as town!

I need to know if this is sarcastic or not. Because there's some hitting that needs to go on now.

It was not. Fire away.

I really have no idea how you could be this stupid as scum.

Yeah, I didn't say quite what I wanted to. I sort of assumed you'd go into more detail, though.

What I meant wasn't quite that he was spouting WIFOM, but that he was ignoring it. He was trying to show that Pandar's "who will I rage at" response implicated me, and by extension, cleared GlyphGryph (and himself and you), when really there were pretty much infinite reasons he could have said two people and not two other people.


I should probably unvote JanusTwoface to avoid incidents, however.

[JanusTwoface]

So, while I have your attention, Janus, why are you trying to blitzkrieg someone? (Are you going after Toaster or Pandarsenic, because I'm still confused.) It's one thing to be aggressive, but whatever you've decided to do isn't going to work. I am having enormous difficulty even beginning to understand a word you're saying.

I'm not.  Up to this point, I'm attacking IronyOwl with a bit of fallout directed at Pandarsenic.  And it would be quite a feat to get Toaster lynched.  Pay attention.

So because it's a quick game, nonsense is alright? Huh?

It's only really "quicker" because there's five players and a distinct possibility of ending on Day 1 with a bit of luck (be it good or bad).  Because it's Hammer it can be as long as it needs to be.

Alright, but as you just said, we're early in the game. If your argument was that he was lurking or active lurking and therefore scum, why didn't you come out and say it instead of mentioning how vulgar he was? If your argument isn't that he's lurking or activelurking, what is it? That your first few words are the most critical?

It also doesn't explain why you think that in the first place. I don't think I've ever seen him not angry.

My argument was that he was being vulgar.  He wasn't lurking in any form at that point, but he was vulgar.  You do have a point that he's always angry and less so this time around though.

Not sure if that means that he's town or just better at covering it up this time around.

You don't remember this? It was around 7% of your total content at the time.

Yay statistics!   (Did you actually calculate that?)

It's fairly implied, since the reason you think I'm scum is because I unvoted him without sufficient cause. So either he's scum, or he's acting scummy and I didn't care. You made it quite clear it was the former, but you might be able to change your story without too much difficulty.

The reason I think you're scum is because you're scum.  Do you want me to change my story?  That whole second half just feels weird.

I know you know what sarcasm is. And if you didn't, you'd immediately want to know why I thought GlyphGryph was town.

It's true.  I do.  Do you?

So you're the other scum? That's a load off my mind, I thought it'd be a pain convincing Pandar not to bus me.

Completely not the point.  The point was that it's theoretically possible to convince your scumbuddy to lynch you (if he feels that he would benefit from the bus) but should be impossible to convince you to lynch yourself no matter your alignment.

I should probably unvote JanusTwoface to avoid incidents, however.

What incidents might those be exactly?

That being said, I'm convinced that you're more likely town than scum at this point.  Could be wrong, but that's something to deal with later.  unvote


Webadict.  You're sidelining more than is your norm / paying less attention to detail than is usual, and then you come in with the BIG BOLD VOICE OF REASON.  All scummy.  2/3 ain't bad, but were' still missing one piece to convince me that you're def-scum as opposed to just prob-scum.

[GlyphGryph]

Herp Derp. Haven't read what happened since my last past, I just wanted to say that I'm an idiot and this is why I generall don't play Mafia.
Webadict wasn't lynched in my game. He was NKed night one. And the fact that I managed to mistakenly remember something so trivial (if even only for ten minutes, cause I realized how much of an idiot I was shortly thereafter), means I no longer have any idea if I have ever seen web lynched, and I'm going to give up on meta for good.

Bleh. Now, to thread reading.

[GlyphGryph]

If it certainly looks like it then why aren't you voting one of us?

Because I'm not sure yet, and what it looks like isn't always what it is? In a normal game, your ass would be covered in my votes by now.

Stream of thought like this are generally too much to be useful to anyone else (except perhaps the bare minimum of use to you, I can't speak to that).
====================
It gives the impression of being useful.  Not actually being useful.  And it's not my job to improve his game, it's his.  It's my job to find scum.
====================
Both voting him and applying pressure.  Pay attention.  And how would asking questions be any better a method of applying pressure?  Any scum worth his salt knows all the proper answers...

And mostly for comments like this. Are you trying to undermine the very concept of scum hunting?  If people aren't talking, they won't slip up. Beyond that - if what he said appears to be useful but isn't at determining whether or not he's scum, then how does he need to improve his game? And if it's your job to find scum, how is getting him to say stuff that's useful to YOU not helping you find scum?

[webadict]

JanusTwoface. Where to start?

I have been in a total of 1 Vengeful Mafia game. It was on IRC, though, and I learned that people are very stupid.

Sounds like a personal problem...

But maybe Janus or Wuba. I don't believe I've raaaged at them yet.

Missed your chance last round.

Unvote Pandarsenic.

GlyphGryph, it's "we're" not "where." Also, which players are you familiar with, and which are new to you?

Yep.  Definately scum.  You put your token random vote on your scum buddy and then back off immediately.  I see how it is.

First off, I have no idea what kind of play style you THINK this is or why on earth you'd think it would work. You're basically OMGUSTunneling on anyone that thinks you're scum. Which is about everyone.

You RV IronyOwl off the bat, then tunnel that into the ground, while throwing off passive attacks at Pandarsenic. I FoS you and then you vote me for no reason at all really. In fact, you expressed little concern for me UNTIL I FoSed you.

You're attempting to apply pressure using terrible logic and jumping to conclusions. The only real conclusions are that you don't mean what you say, and therefore need to be ignored, or are deliberately trying to get someone lynched using any excuse you can manage.

Terrible logic?  Point it out.

Also, I'm not trying to get someone lynched.  I'm trying to get you lynched.  And I'm not trying to get you lynched using any excuse.  I'm trying to get you lynched because you are scum.

Your logic, up to that point (and further), had been terrible. The point is not to have a 50:50 shot at winning. If you want that, flip a coin. Like it or not, you ARE trying to get someone lynched for any reason at all. Look at your playing! You START OFF by tunneling. That's the start. Anyone that expresses any suspicion towards you is automatically scum to you. Look at it. You don't give up on that tunnel until I SUSPECT YOU.

Admitting it would at least salvage some chance for you, but you're going to have to get lynched now, JanusTwoface.

Unfortunately, you're wrong on two parts. One, I do wish to indulge on the going-ons inside people's minds, and two, during Day 2, we can read everyone's posts again. So shut up.

Great idea if one of these ever makes it to day 2.  Even better if anyone actually ever did this...  And no.  I won't.  Scum are like fascists, always trying to suppress peoples...

You feel like you're sidelining.  Much more than previous games I've played with you at the very least.  This is scummy.

Ignoring we won't get to Day 2? Pretty stupid. First off, if we don't get to Day 2, we lose. Also, nice joke to throw in there. Haha, get it? You're comparing yourself to scum. I, however, was allowing the expression of all ideas except the ones that suppress them. Big difference.

What the hell are you talking about? It doesn't prove he's town, but it certainly gives us something to work with. Don't just critique - offer constructive criticism. What do you want him to do instead?

It gives the impression of being useful.  Not actually being useful.  And it's not my job to improve his game, it's his.  It's my job to find scum.

Are you reading what you're saying? It's your job to make sure he stops talking about the game? That's how you're finding scum, apparently. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I do have to say though, It's pretty ballsy tunneling on your scumpartner like you are. And if that's not what you're doing... well, that's certainly what it looks like from here.

If it certainly looks like it then why aren't you voting one of us?

I'm voting you. Any more WIFOM you'd like to spread before you're lynched?

-Stating he might or might not tunnel and then vengekill/be vengekilled by a townie, which you consider "statistically likely." I'd say this was unrelated, but it's basically all you've got.

No one has much of anything.  We're only a few hours again.  That's the entire point of the early game.

And yet your tunnel is totally justified! Better yet, so is the rushing of the game! I mean, with so little evidence, we should probably move faster!

-Including "(p.s. fuck you)" in his response, since Pandar's only foul-mouthed when he's scum. This is both blatantly false, at least in any game I've seen him in, and means the opposite in this case, since he's far, far less angry than usual.

Those two words were more than 5% of his total word count at that point.

Is that a justification or a rebuttal? Because it fails on both accounts. It doesn't answer the fact that it's false, and it certainly doesn't answer the fact that 5% is 1-in-20 words.

-A fairly irrelevant argument. No real indication of why it specifically makes him scum.

I'm not sure if he's scum.  He's scummy enough, but he almost always is.  I think you're scum.  All of that was in answer to your question "Did you not like his answer?".  I didn't.  Doesn't necessarily make him scum.

Right. The passive attacks are definitely indicating that. I mean, it's a good way to make you look more active than you are.

But clearly, he wouldn't list his scumbuddy for precisely that reason or leave out just his buddy because he'd know we knew that, so this basically confirms GlyphGryph as town and me as scum.

Did you just say that you're scum? ... Huh.

And you're not planning on pushing the hypothetical point forward or making this attack any less passive? Because you might as well add the words probably and then more ellipses.

Excellent, Mr. Holmes. If you would explain why, we can wrap this up post haste.

You're the only one I don't have to convince...

True, but we're not trying to convince you you're scum. We already know it. We're trying to gather more evidence against you and show everyone else what you are.

So, while I have your attention, Janus, why are you trying to blitzkrieg someone? (Are you going after Toaster or Pandarsenic, because I'm still confused.) It's one thing to be aggressive, but whatever you've decided to do isn't going to work. I am having enormous difficulty even beginning to understand a word you're saying.

I'm not.  Up to this point, I'm attacking IronyOwl with a bit of fallout directed at Pandarsenic.  And it would be quite a feat to get Toaster lynched.  Pay attention.

Maybe you should pay more attention to my addendum. Had you read the entirety of the post, you'd notice I mixed up Toaster and IronyOwl. But, it still doesn't ignore the fact that you're tunneling and passive attacking on IronyOwl and Pandarsenic, respectively.

So because it's a quick game, nonsense is alright? Huh?

It's only really "quicker" because there's five players and a distinct possibility of ending on Day 1 with a bit of luck (be it good or bad).  Because it's Hammer it can be as long as it needs to be.

Or because you're trying to make it quicker. And thanks for adopting my message of calming down after I say it, then voting me for it. Love your hypocrisy.

Alright, but as you just said, we're early in the game. If your argument was that he was lurking or active lurking and therefore scum, why didn't you come out and say it instead of mentioning how vulgar he was? If your argument isn't that he's lurking or activelurking, what is it? That your first few words are the most critical?

It also doesn't explain why you think that in the first place. I don't think I've ever seen him not angry.

My argument was that he was being vulgar.  He wasn't lurking in any form at that point, but he was vulgar.  You do have a point that he's always angry and less so this time around though.

Not sure if that means that he's town or just better at covering it up this time around.

AND YET YOU SAY IT MAKES HIM MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM!

(p.s. fuck you)

Profane Pandarsenic is scummy Pandarsenic.

THERE'S THE BACKTRACK, EVERYONE!

It's fairly implied, since the reason you think I'm scum is because I unvoted him without sufficient cause. So either he's scum, or he's acting scummy and I didn't care. You made it quite clear it was the former, but you might be able to change your story without too much difficulty.

The reason I think you're scum is because you're scum.  Do you want me to change my story?  That whole second half just feels weird.

See, at least make an attempt at an argument. Just because you think "A because A" is gonna fool everyone, won't make it so. I, on the other hand, have pointed out sufficient cause to lynch you. See the difference? Maybe you will next time you play.

So you're the other scum? That's a load off my mind, I thought it'd be a pain convincing Pandar not to bus me.

Completely not the point.  The point was that it's theoretically possible to convince your scumbuddy to lynch you (if he feels that he would benefit from the bus) but should be impossible to convince you to lynch yourself no matter your alignment.

But it WOULDN'T make sense to bus your partner here unless you were confident that they could defend themselves or because you knew you could survive TWO lynches and ONE vengekill. Meaning you're the only survivor.

In fact, it's even less likely to happen with the Godfather being an instant loss for the scum, so that means only ONE player could pull it off successfully: The Godfather. At least think logically for a second.

I should probably unvote JanusTwoface to avoid incidents, however.

What incidents might those be exactly?

That being said, I'm convinced that you're more likely town than scum at this point.  Could be wrong, but that's something to deal with later.  unvote

Right, the tunnel didn't work, did it?

Webadict.  You're sidelining more than is your norm / paying less attention to detail than is usual, and then you come in with the BIG BOLD VOICE OF REASON.  All scummy.  2/3 ain't bad, but were' still missing one piece to convince me that you're def-scum as opposed to just prob-scum.

I can understand the sidelining comment, as I was particularly busy, but you think I'm paying less attention? True, I didn't notice the whole Toaster vs. IronyOwl thing until I was looking back at the thread, but is there anything game related in that comment? No? Didn't think so.

And I'd really like to see you pull this Too Townie argument off. No, really. I WANT to see it. Please, continue it. It will give me something to laugh about for days to come. How JanusTwoface, backed into a corner, pulls out all the stops. When logical reasoning fails you, try fallacies. Seriously, kid, learn to play. Or, at least make an effort to make it look like you ARE playing. Go suck a lemon.

[JanusTwoface]

And then there were three.  Personal attacks and lemony-flavored vitriol.  Oh good.

And mostly for comments like this. Are you trying to undermine the very concept of scum hunting?  If people aren't talking, they won't slip up. Beyond that - if what he said appears to be useful but isn't at determining whether or not he's scum, then how does he need to improve his game? And if it's your job to find scum, how is getting him to say stuff that's useful to YOU not helping you find scum?

... No. I was working on IronyOwl and now Webadict. If you want Pandarsenic to talk, you make make him talk.

Spoiler: Specific responses to Webadict (click to show/hide)

You RV IronyOwl off the bat, then tunnel that into the ground, while throwing off passive attacks at Pandarsenic. I FoS you and then you vote me for no reason at all really. In fact, you expressed little concern for me UNTIL I FoSed you.

I was determining if I thought IronyOwl was scum or town. It worked.

First off, if we don't get to Day 2, we lose.

Wrong.

It's your job to make sure he stops talking about the game?

How am I stopping him exactly? I'm commenting that a particular style of scum hunting is useless and often employed by scum. One often used by ToonyMan, less often (but more relevantly at this point) by Pandarsenic.

I'm voting you. Any more WIFOM you'd like to spread before you're lynched?

... That was directed at GlyphGryph. Doesn't really have anything to do with you. Again, pay attention.

And yet your tunnel is totally justified! Better yet, so is the rushing of the game! I mean, with so little evidence, we should probably move faster!

Rushing of the game? No. Playing the game? Yes.

It's not my problem if you feel rushed.

Right. The passive attacks are definitely indicating that. I mean, it's a good way to make you look more active than you are.

Ah. I'm not active now. Shiny.

And you're not planning on pushing the hypothetical point forward or making this attack any less passive? Because you might as well add the words probably and then more ellipses.

Sarcasm.

Maybe you should pay more attention to my addendum. Had you read the entirety of the post, you'd notice I mixed up Toaster and IronyOwl. But, it still doesn't ignore the fact that you're tunneling and passive attacking on IronyOwl and Pandarsenic, respectively.

I did. The point is that you missed who one of the two active players (at that point) was and didn't bother to fix your post. Either you're not paying attention or you made the mistake on purpose.

THERE'S THE BACKTRACK, EVERYONE!

He hasn't been vulgar since then. It would be scummier not to back down on that point.

See, at least make an attempt at an argument. Just because you think "A because A" is gonna fool everyone, won't make it so. I, on the other hand, have pointed out sufficient cause to lynch you. See the difference? Maybe you will next time you play.

Applying pressure to determine alignment... Sounds like the definition of scumhunting.

But it WOULDN'T make sense to bus your partner here unless you were confident that they could defend themselves or because you knew you could survive TWO lynches and ONE vengekill. Meaning you're the only survivor.

Bolded part.

Right, the tunnel didn't work, did it?

Actually it did. I learned what I wanted about IronyOwl.

And I'd really like to see you pull this Too Townie argument off. No, really. I WANT to see it. Please, continue it. It will give me something to laugh about for days to come. How JanusTwoface, backed into a corner, pulls out all the stops. When logical reasoning fails you, try fallacies. Seriously, kid, learn to play. Or, at least make an effort to make it look like you ARE playing. Go suck a lemon.

Too townie? No. "Voice of reason"? yes.