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[Jim Groovester]

Zathras, if Combat Camouflage was around we'd be seeing more vig kills instead of Exterminator kills.

If it's a JTF/whoever Exterminator team, there'd be no reason to keep the Camo on JTF after he used his Assassin Bot. And if that were the case there'd be no Exterminator kills at all; since the Assassin Bot doesn't use up a night action JTF/whoever can just transfer the Camo and the Bot to whoever's doing the kill and suddenly everything looks like human kills.

I think this pretty conclusively rules out JTF as being the Exterminator.

[Leafsnail]

Leafsnail, why did you claim Survivor in the middle of the night in a PM to everybody? And why did you neglect to mention that you had a Mind Shield until today?

Simple answer?  I didn't want to be lynched or NK'd.  Since I'm, y'know, a survivor.  The later in the game it is, the less sense it makes for anyone on any side to kill me.

No other real explanation my ass. How about Ottofar protecting a dopp the Exterminator targeted?

Wow, it's funny how you wait until now to point this out.

I actually had the pm prepared in advance, and sent it out when I saw the day ended.  Ottofar's flip was hilariously unlucky for me.

[Leafsnail]

Come to think of it, if that were the case, the remaining dopp would now KNOW that I'm the exterminator.

So they'd probably either reveal it before being lynched or just kill me in the night.

[Zathras]

Dopp: Argembarger  (I've said why)[...]

Yes. I think the consensus is complete, isn't it? Other than Dariush, is anyone not voting him? A consensus this complete makes me uneasy, but yeah, it is the right lynch, I think, so let's do it.

The Whiteboard
Argembarger: Jim Groovester, Leafsnail, Toaster, Zathras
Jim Groovester : KaminaSquirtle, Dariush
KaminaSquirtle: JanusTwoface

Oh, not nearly as complete as I thought. Oh well, less uneasy then.

Mod: clarification please: An operative gets 1 medium tech and 2 small, yes? Can the two small be exchanged for one medium? By this I mean: can an operative get both an assassin bot and combat camo? Also, the ext and ext-op can share tech; how does this work with combat camo? Say the ext chose camo, but gave it to the op for night one, then the ext's kill will not be masked, but the op's kill would, yes?

No, slots can not be exchanged except as noted in the specific rules (a 2-shot scanner for a Medium slot, for example).

Thanks Mep. For the group: where I was going with this question was about Janus/Dariush as a team. For them to be it, they'd need two bots, combat camo, a stun orb and a modulator. Ext gets 1 large, 1 medium; he takes replicator and bot. Op gets 1 medium, 2 small; he gets bot, orb, mod. Replicator creates camo. Night one, the Exty Dariush gives camo to Janus the Op, Janus gives the Exty the modulator, Janus bots Org, Dariush (then Soli or Mish or whoever) kills Cript (or Exty Janus keeps camo and makes both kills). Night two, exty does not act or hits Leafsail. Night three Janus/Dariush concoct the claim plan, and were told Toaster inspected and gave the "agent op" as result; Janus gives Dariush the orb, who then goes and gets his way with MBP and Wuba, or one hits MBP and the other Wuba.

Any holes in that? Not saying that its' the only explanation, or necessarily the most likely, I'm just trying to see if I have all the requisites working right in my head.


PPE: Ninja'd by Jim... well, I already typed it, so you get to read it; also, why wouldn't the alien team want to have camo in the picture, and used it seldom? Your ruling JTF out for that shows that it'd be a viable misdirection strategy, yes?

[Jim Groovester]

Yeah, I guess that's possible, but that's a medium tech slot that they used only once. You'd think if they could look like a vig they would instead of reveal to the whole world that there's an Exterminator alien running around and only make JTF look like a Mad Scientist, since it would be possible to do both.

[Dariush]

Thanks Mep. For the group: where I was going with this question was about Janus/Dariush as a team. For them to be it, they'd need two bots, combat camo, a stun orb and a modulator. Ext gets 1 large, 1 medium; he takes replicator and bot. Op gets 1 medium, 2 small; he gets bot, orb, mod. Replicator creates camo. Night one, the Exty Dariush gives camo to Janus the Op, Janus gives the Exty the modulator, Janus bots Org, Dariush (then Soli or Mish or whoever) kills Cript (or Exty Janus keeps camo and makes both kills). Night two, exty does not act or hits Leafsail. Night three Janus/Dariush concoct the claim plan, and were told Toaster inspected and gave the "agent op" as result; Janus gives Dariush the orb, who then goes and gets his way with MBP and Wuba, or one hits MBP and the other Wuba.

That is hilariously complex plan. However, if I was the exty, why would have I picked Assassin bot? Wouldn't it be more logical to take camo from the start and just skip replicator step, taking something else for the large tech and claim that my bot-kill of MBP was blocked?

Also, there's a possibility that JTF is Exty who used modulator on the night of Mish's scanning, which shouldn't be overlooked.

[Zathras]

That is hilariously complex plan. However, if I was the exty, why would have I picked Assassin bot? Wouldn't it be more logical to take camo from the start and just skip replicator step, taking something else for the large tech and claim that my bot-kill of MBP was blocked?

Not really, just about any plan would look complex three days in, and the point of the replicator is precisely to add flexibility. Second, the bot is always a good pick, an extra kill never hurt any scum; and third, bots can't be blocked.

Also, there's a possibility that JTF is Exty who used modulator on the night of Mish's scanning, which shouldn't be overlooked.

Yes, it's possible, but he'd need bot, camo and the modulator, which requires his Op to exist and help. I did bring up the possibility earlier, but since the Op must exist in this case, looking for the Op helps us narrow it down.

Meph: just one more question: can the camo be turned on/off at will? Say I'm the Ext and have camo, can I choose to mask my bot kill, but not my standard night kill? Also, since the ext and op can share tech, can they share the camo on the same night, masking both of their kills? (say I NK with camo, I give it to my op, who bots someone else, also masking it?)

[Mephansteras]

Meph: just one more question: can the camo be turned on/off at will? Say I'm the Ext and have camo, can I choose to mask my bot kill, but not my standard night kill? Also, since the ext and op can share tech, can they share the camo on the same night, masking both of their kills? (say I NK with camo, I give it to my op, who bots someone else, also masking it?)

Yes, camo can be turned on and off at will. It can also be used for all kills made.

[Dariush]

Bots can't be blocked.

Even by Anti-Tech field?

And why exactly would JTF (if he IS Exty) pick camo? Exterminator got his own kill on first and third night, there was a claim about his attempt on second one and JTF has admitted to killing Org. I fail to see the need to mask his kills in those circumstances. (if there IS such a need, forgive me - it's my first Paranormal)

[Dariush]

And why exactly would JTF (if he IS Exty) pick camo?

Er, I forgot to add 'in case he's working without Op'.

[Toaster]

Assassin Bot can be used at the same time as the regular kill, so the camo isn't needed.

Janus theory:  Took Bot and Replicator, replicated up adv. holo

N1: Kill Cript, bot Org, holo blows on Dariush
N2: Hit Leaf's shield
N3: Kill Web

It could be solo, but as I said before, I doubt it.

[JanusTwoface]

Someone asked for when/how Jim claimed Kook to me:

Why didn't you claim Kook Day 1?

It didn't seem like a good idea. There's been several Paranormal games where Day 1 Kook claims end really badly for the person who's doing it, even if they were claiming truthfully. Additionally, I didn't trust Mr.Person's call for it.

That was during the end of Day 2.



My thoughts, ordered and split by scumitude.

Dopp:
Eduren/Argembarger - Active lurking, flipped out when I pointed it out
KaminaSquirtle - Tried to clear himself by attaching to Zathras
Toaster - Easy fake claim, wish he would have claimed first
Zathras - He's a Warden, could be a Dopp one but I don't think he'd have bussed Pandarsenic

Exterminator:
Leafsnail - Exterminators also want to live, 'forgot' Mind Shield claim
Jim Groovester - Kook claim is perfect for an Exterminator with a Modulator
Solifuge/Mish/Dariush - Could possibly be
JanusTwoface - Oh I wish I were the Exterminator... It would have been epic.

Not saying that there couldn't be some cross-over on these lists, but I think this is more likely.  Thus, sorry Argembarger, but I have to agree with the majority.

Either way you flip, take this as a learning experience to be very careful about mid-game gameplay changes.


Zathras' explinations for how I could be an Alien:
Occam's Razor and/or Xantos Gambit (don't click that link if you value your free time)

Granted, it's always possible for things to go complex in Mafia, but we're no-where near the point where it's necessary to look that deep.  Although, it doesn't hurt my ego if you think I would plan something like that...

Side note: Is the exchanging tech thing new? I don't remember that from previous rounds. Granted, the only Alien role I've had was Scientist/Xenozooligist, so it goes.


Night actions:
(Note: these are just what I would do, feel free to ignore me.)

If Argembarger is town:
- Zathras should block Leafsnail (see below) or one of the people that shouldn't have an action. Might block kill, at least will confirm Zathras again (not that that's necessary).
- Toaster should inspect Jim Groovester. The Kook bit will have no effect. If he's a Dopp Townie, then he would have done the night kill rather than Webadict.
- KaminaSquirtle should guard Toaster or Zathras (without telling us which), they're the most likely to find the dopp.

If Argembarger is the Dopp:
- Zathras should block Leafsnail. The flavor should tell us if he has a Mind Shield or Advanced Mind Shield.
- Toaster should inspect Dariush (to remove the possibility of a Holoform) or Leafsnail (and again the next night to counter a Holoform).
- KaminaSquirtle still on Toaster or Zathras.

[JanusTwoface]

Assassin Bot can be used at the same time as the regular kill, so the camo isn't needed.

Janus theory:  Took Bot and Replicator, replicated up adv. holo

N1: Kill Cript, bot Org, holo blows on Dariush
N2: Hit Leaf's shield
N3: Kill Web

It could be solo, but as I said before, I doubt it.

Sort of possible.

Problems:
- If I'm the Exterminator and Dariush is my Agent, then why did Toaster lie about the claim? (He'd have to be a Dopp and working with us)
- Also, why would he fake-claim that he scanned me? He'd know (or at least I'd know) that it's a death sentence for me as soon as he dies...
- If I'm the Exterminator and Dariush isn't my Agent, why'd he claim to clear me?  It'd be better for the Agent Operative to get the Exterminator killed.

Simplest and most likely explination: I'm not the Exterminator.

[Zathras]

Assassin Bot can be used at the same time as the regular kill, so the camo isn't needed.

Janus theory:  Took Bot and Replicator, replicated up adv. holo

N1: Kill Cript, bot Org, holo blows on Dariush
N2: Hit Leaf's shield
N3: Kill Web

It could be solo, but as I said before, I doubt it.

Camo is needed because I'm told his bot flavour on Org says Human Mad Scientist instead of Alien bot. Again, can those more experienced with the flavour say conclusively one way or the other?

And I think a standard holoform modulator is sufficient (small tech), an advanced one (medium tech) is not needed. Or am I misreading it?

• Small Tech
• Holoform Modulator: Works once when investigated, allowing the alien to choose a role and race to show as. Once activated it lasts the entire night but is used up after that. Does not use up the Alien's action for that night.
     
     
• Medium Tech
• Advanced Holoform Modulator: Works as the Holoform Modulator, but also allows the Alien to project an active hologram. This hologram can be shown to go to any location (or stay at home). Anyone following the Alien will watch the Hologram instead of the Alien. Does not use up the Alien's action for that night.

PPE: ninja'd again... will catch up to JTF's replies in a bit.
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[Toaster]

Good call on the flavor- camo would be needed.

And I'm mixing up adv. holo and adv. mind shield- we'd only need the regular here.  Being a small tech, it'd need to come from replicator, implying the exty could have a shield or a deadman bomb up his sleeve.