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[Ottofar]

 A daykill, apparently.

Also, a post coming up shortly.

[Ottofar]

...or not. I was forced on my phone, as my brother broke a table, and my parents went berserk.

Anyways, one of my problems in mafia, aside from being terrible, is not paying too much attention to what everyone else is.

[Nirur Torir]

I'M SORRY

YOUR CHAINSAW IS SO LOUD I CAN BARELY HEAR YOU

MAYBE YOU SHOULD STOP CHAINSAWING FIRST

(Heading to a friend's house, actual responses to your failures later)

(Also, I get that Ottofar can't be here but that's a general "where the fuck," not a specific-to-right-now one. He does this EVERY game.)

Your objection to being questioned has been noted.

Emphasis mine.

Annoying emphasis removed. There wasn't much need to post why you would be delayed a few hours. I was attacking you for trying to deter me with accusations.

Roles that would blatantly buddy:
[....]
Point made yet?

Yes, thanks.

@Pandarsenic: Why are you ignoring Archangel? You posted after Archangel did, yet didn't mention Archangel at all. It's almost like you're trying to slink away with your Archangel vote and get away with not talking about your vote. Please, eradicate my suspicions by responding to Archangel.

I did reply to him. I posted twice in a row when I realized I'd missed his post and was the FIRST PERSON TO VOTE HIM FOR THE BULLSHIT HE TRIED TO PULL. Pay attention.

But really, since I'm trying to decide whether someone is scummy or not, why've you got a problem? Is it because I'm suspicious of your buddy? And did you not notice my post, despite there being an hour between it and yours? Why did you come out of lurking just to repeat others' arguments and then bandwagon on Irony? Is it, perhaps, because you are scum?

I made it easier for you to answer questions you didn't notice the first time. You're welcome.

IRONY OVERWHELMING

That aside, in order:
Reasons already stated http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=72355.msg1810383#msg1810383
No
Yes
Invalid question. I did no such thing and thus cannot answer why I "did" that.
Invalid question again.

Context quotes added in by me.
Why didn't you respond the first time, instead pretending they didn't exist until I slapped you in the face with them?

Nirur Torir's attempts to twist my clear statement that I'd be back later but was giving an impression of his post for the time being into "HE DODGIN QUESTUMS" was not something I was or am in the mood to tolerate.

A) You HAVE been dodging questions.
B) I wasn't then accusing you of dodging my last questions, just of getting annoyed and trying to deter me to get me to stop questioning you.

Wait, what the hell just happened?

Someone spreading WIFOM. Either Zathras got too close to attacking somebody scummy, or somebody wants others to believe that Zathras got too close to Pandarsenic being scum. Either way they win by the apparently best scum hunter being dead. Everybody else wins by the death of a SK. Try to ignore it.

Pandarsenic, you're still scum. You did *nothing* prior to the first extension (when it was clear it would pass), and I strongly feel like you were waiting for your night action instead of actually trying to find scum. You then jumped on Archangel for being the scummiest of anyone, because you "don't want him moving the game backwards." Your main defense against me is by threatening me (Nirur's chainsawing me to defend Archangel!). You haven't asked me any questions, yet insist that I'm the second scummiest person.

IronyOwl: With Zathras dead and a confirmed SK, how do you feel about Jokerman now? Will you take up the reins and attack him, or does Zathras' flip make his arguments moot?

Extension request. Pandarsenic needs some time to read the thread.

[Pandarsenic]

Wow was I off about Zathras' alignment. Figures the person I considered second-most-townlike among us would be a Serial Killer.

And Nirur Torir, I did ask Archangel whether he was really voting MBP for... being told to restate his argument. I don't recall receiving an answer yet.

[Zathras]

Spoiler: Aaaaauuuuggghhhh Fuckeeeers! (click to show/hide)

I was... to be a God, don't you understand?

LurkerTracker^®, Bah Humbug edition
"Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome." -- Isaac Asimov.
Amidst the mists and fiercest frosts, with barest wrists and stoutest boasts,
he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.

Archangel has 4 posts; the last 57 hours ago. Red text: Puppet Posts: [1][2][3][4]
Argembarger has 7 posts; the last 3 hours ago. Red text: Vote Archangel Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7]
IronyOwl has 16 posts; the last 10 hours ago. Red text: Pandar. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16]
Jokerman-EXE has 10 posts; the last 45 hours ago. Red text: Zathras Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]
Mr.Person has 12 posts; the last 14 hours ago. Red text: unvote.Jokerman Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]
Mysteriousbluepuppet has 17 posts; the last 13 hours ago. Red text: IronyOwl: Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17]
NativeForeigner has 28 posts; the last 14 hours ago. Red text: Org Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28]
Nirur Torir has 22 posts; the last 1 hours ago. Red text: Pandarsenic Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22]
Org has 9 posts; the last 36 hours ago. Red text: Nirur Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]
Ottofar has 10 posts; the last 1 hours ago. Red text: MBP Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]
Pandarsenic has 19 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Red text: Archangel Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19]
Toaster has 16 posts; the last 61 hours ago. Red text: IronyOwl Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16]

Zathras, dead, Caligula Caesar, SPQR has 21 posts; the last 9 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21]

Moderator has 4 posts; the last 3 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4]
The Morgue: Zathras, dead, Caligula Caesar, SPQR.

Moderator: please prod Archangel, Jokerman-EXE, Org, Toaster. They haven't posted in over 36 hours.Notes:
1) As I'm dead, this is the last LurkerTracker of the game, unless you convince Webadict that you need them and he tells me.
2) I am now in No Games! Humbug! Someone please rectify this situation stat!

[Jokerman-EXE]

So there's that roleflip. I'd like to take the opportunity to say fuck you, fuck you, and uhh...oh, fuck you to all y'all dicks.

Nirur: Do you think it's wise to completely ignore Zathras' death? We gleaned some interesting information from it.

[Nirur Torir]

Nirur: Do you think it's wise to completely ignore Zathras' death? We gleaned some interesting information from it.

Clarification: The roleflip need not be ignored, but the death itself should be.
I do not believe that anything other then WIFOM can come of speculation on his death.

[NativeForeigner]

So there's that roleflip. I'd like to take the opportunity to say fuck you, fuck you, and uhh...oh, fuck you to all y'all dicks.

Still doesn't clear your name, bro. There could be multiple scum factions and third-party roles.

I'll probably post more later today, I'm on my phone, so it's a bit of a hassle to go through everything.

[Pandarsenic]

Confirmed with LURKERTRACKER, Archangel never answered my question because he only posted 4 times in the whole thread.

[Nirur Torir]

Indeed. Shall I provide a list of people I consider to be lurking who aren't near the top of your scum list?

[Org]

Just sayin', I think Pandar is somewhat scummy.
Again, this is only something I am feeling right now. Most of it has to do with wifomy stuff not necessarily stuff he said but things I could understand whioch could cause confusion blah blah why am I saying this.
I'll unvote Nirur for now, dont use meta herp derp.

[Mr.Person]

Zathra's points on Jokerman were and continue to be extremely valid.

I'd like to remind everyone that the votes have been reset. Right now, I'm the only player voting.

[Nirur Torir]

Zathra's points on Jokerman were and continue to be extremely valid.

I'd like to remind everyone that the votes have been reset. Right now, I'm the only player voting.

And me. I voted Pandarsenic in my previous post.

[IronyOwl]

Pandarsenic. You still haven't explained how you're going to form an opinion on Jokerman when:

A) His posts contain no content
B) You're not asking him any questions

As I've said every time I'm asked about Jokerman, I've reached no real conclusion over Jokerman, and am still forming my opinion of him.

If anyone continues to push me on it I will assume you're trying to force my hand on a matter involving wanting him dead for some reason and as such consider you scummy for it. If I gave you a more in-depth opinion on Jokerman I would be lying. If I were scum I'd be giving you a definite opinion to disperse the heat this is gaining me - either calling him town to look like I have ground and am holding it or calling him scum because you all seem to want me to. But I won't be coerced into acting on something I don't have a definite stance on yet so stop trying to get me to.

Such passive defensive bullshit. You're sitting there doing nothing with no opinion, and trying to defend this as normal. I'm sorry, you don't want to be "coerced" into playing the fucking game, how scummy of us to try.

Oh, and then your top two scumpicks are for buddying and asking someone to restate something. Awesome! Such strong, well-developed suspicions! Are you pressuring either to learn more? No? Yes but only after someone pressured you on it? Cool!

That's... I don't... seriously? IronyOwl, I want you to tell me why you kept grouping yourself and Zathras against Jokerman.

I indeed forgot to answer this. The answer is that we were both attacking Jokerman for being scummy for defending lurking, so we were both similar enough to ask about or mention in a group, as it related to those topics.

Also, I'm going to request another degree of extension. Tonight or tomorrow morning I'm going to review all of Joe's posts, particular the early ones I haven't given a look at post-OMGUS.

So, you've basically admitted to active-lurking, seeing as you've stated over and over that you have no opinion on Jokerman... and then are going to go back and actually read his fucking posts to figure him out. HMMMM, WHAT DOES THIS IMPLY ABOUT WHAT YOU WERE DOING PREVIOUSLY? JACK SHIT? IS IT JACK SHIT?

IronyOwl: With Zathras dead and a confirmed SK, how do you feel about Jokerman now? Will you take up the reins and attack him, or does Zathras' flip make his arguments moot?

Absolutely and no. Zathras never said "trust me on this one" or "if I'm town this would mean Joker must be scum." If his arguments weren't faulty when he was town, they're not faulty when he's a ruthless murderer.

Confirmed with LURKERTRACKER, Archangel never answered my question because he only posted 4 times in the whole thread.

Four days ago, before the extension, you were in the same boat. You sure you want to point out how scummy that is?

You are correct that Archangel, Ottofar, and Org need to get the fuck in here, however.

So there's that roleflip. I'd like to take the opportunity to say fuck you, fuck you, and uhh...oh, fuck you to all y'all dicks.

And I'd like to take the opportunity to say you're not off the hook. Do you have any response to the accusations against you other than "way to ignore my arguments" and "anything is scummy if its spun by scum?" I can restate them if necessary, but you never responded to Zathras' latest round, and you haven't responded satisfactorily to just about anything.

[NativeForeigner]

Extension, if we don't already have enough votes.

Pandar, do you think Zathras getting daykilled right after he started attacking you will cause you to become more suspicious to others? Do you think that, assuming you didn't do it yourself, someone else daykilled him, they were doing it to frame you?

Jokerman do you really expect people to let you off the hook just because of a roleflip in BYOR? The points he brought up against you are still very valid.

This would be tunneling, not bussing. And I'm not saying you're bussing, just distancing (hypothetically). It wouldn't make sense for anyone to be bussing this early in the game, it could be a fatal mistake to do so.

I take it an early game bussing won the game for scum?

Spoiler: On WIFOM (click to show/hide)

It wasn't exactly early, but one scum thought he wasn't being scummy, and so told the other scum to attack him. He did, and that guy was scummy, so he got lynched and everyone assumed the guy who bussed couldn't be scum. Other factors were at work, but suffice to say he sat back and laughed while the three remaining townies bickered over who was scum. For added strangeness, the last remaining mostly-confirmed townie wasn't NKed that night, because the scum didn't get on that night to order the kill.

So, obviously that's an extreme example, but you can never be totally certain of something not making sense because you can never be totally certain what's going on, and because if scum know doing X is a terrible idea for scum, they might do X to prove they're not scum.

That said, I do think bussing seems unlikely with multiple factions, because proving themselves townie only solves half the problem, and makes the other half a lot worse.

See, I was thinking that too (that scum would do X to prove they're not scum), but it just seems like it would be an extremely risky move. But one that would pay off big time if it works. Also, like you said, bussing doesn't seem like it would get you far in a BYOR game with the possibility of multiple factions.