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[Toaster]

Vague ToonyMan isn't as scummy as obtuse and unhelpful ToonyMan, but you're not out of the woods yet.

What- specifically, and hopefully with quotes- about Argem's demeanor do you not like?
Why are you being so terse and reluctant to answer questions?  Don't deny there were questions- you'd be going back to obtuse ToonyMan.

[Zathras]

if you're a kook, you should claim it now.  No claiming it after an inspection shows you as scum.

Interesting; and also interesting that no other takers have spoken. As you know, there are other schools of thought on this matter (see Jim's lack of a claim last game). In fact, unless a scummier target appears, I'm in favour of lynching the sole kook claimant, as it also saves us an inspection, and it could easily be a safeclaim for a scum who wants to avoid it. I'm still voting MBP for it, on top of his evasive and noncommittal behaviour, though it may change if his play improves or better targets present themselves. MBP, please give us your top scumpicks so far, and answer the question at the bottom as well.


All: we don't seem to have made that much progress with the hunting so far, so a question in a slightly different vein: what about the puzzle? There's a puzzle out there, and I see little interest in solving it so far. We are told explicitly that flavour may be outright false, so I say that it's not the case that there are only two dopps out there. We are told that death roleflips will be (generally) accurate, so I'd like to see one and figure out whether it looks trustworthy and whether it fits into a larger picture. We are given a closed "simulation" setting, but there must be more to this than that, but what? Win conditions seem to be somewhat tied to the puzzle...  Thoughts? Ideas? Does anyone have a piece of the puzzle they'd like to share with the group?

[Jim Groovester]

Zathras, by claiming kook MBP has already saved us an inspection. What result other than doppelganger is an Agent going to get? Saving inspections is no reason to lynch him since the inspections have already been saved.

All: we don't seem to have made that much progress with the hunting so far, so a question in a slightly different vein: what about the puzzle? There's a puzzle out there, and I see little interest in solving it so far. We are told explicitly that flavour may be outright false, so I say that it's not the case that there are only two dopps out there. We are told that death roleflips will be (generally) accurate, so I'd like to see one and figure out whether it looks trustworthy and whether it fits into a larger picture. We are given a closed "simulation" setting, but there must be more to this than that, but what? Win conditions seem to be somewhat tied to the puzzle...  Thoughts? Ideas? Does anyone have a piece of the puzzle they'd like to share with the group?

There's nothing to go off of though. We can't solve a puzzle if we don't even know what pieces we're dealing with.

Let's just lynch somebody scummy and get back to this on Day 2.

[Zathras]

Someone like.... MBP?

Seriously, his replies were scummy enough for me, and he hasn't done anything else. Yes, you're right that it saves an Agent an inspection, but not a scanner or telepath, and if he flips, we don't need to either inspect him or take his word for it! Ain't that pretty?

I sort of agree that the puzzle may be more visible D2, and we should have more pieces then, I just want us to get a head start if we can. So, yes, we'll revisit this tomorrow, but still, if anyone has thoughts about it or pieces to share, I'm interested.

[Dariush]

Let's just lynch somebody scummy and get back to this on Day 2.

Hurr, I was correct about your intention of lynching someone. Anyone.

My vote against Jim was maybe partly OMGUS - 1) He has ignored my question about why he picked my randomvote out of all others to latch on; 2) He hasn't made any useful statements except voting me; 3) He has twice (or once at the time of my vote) shown that he intends to lynch someone and doesn't care about mislynch; 4) He used any reason (up to my choice of words) to incriminate me. I would have voted the same if his target was someone else.

My thoughts about other things at the moment:
ToonyMan is unhelpful, but not particularly scummy. Well, he was REALLY unhelpful, but considering the variety of questions he was asked ('Are you a dopp?', 'Tell us the truth') that isn't surprising. The last series of questions was logical, which got the logical answer. There are more logical targets at the moment.

Toaster, why are you abstaining from voting? Please tell us your suspicions.

Leafsnail, why are you so passive after randomvoting Jokerman? Just asking questions without stating anything yourself?

MBP, same question - why so secretive and passive?

Argembarger has a solid reason to be nervous (who wouldn't be on his second game?), and his behaviour is different from the last game when he was dopp, so I doubt he's scum.

[Toaster]

Dariush:  That's how the game is played.  If we sit around twiddling our thumbs and don't lynch anyone, the dopps will eventually eat us all.

As for voting, I usually random vote once or twice, then settle into a period of questioning until I find something juicy.  ToonyMan is, as said, not being super helpful, and I would have voted him without that post right before my last.  You're nervous and jumpy. 

Why do you think it is scummy to want to lynch anyone?  What benefit do you see from not lynching D1?  Hint:  Any answer to the second question that involved the words "agent" or "role" is wrong.

Zathras:  Don't you think lynching someone for a kook claim is a good way to make sure no one ever claims it again?

Org:  Do you think that if you started a game being very active, wordy, and helpful, you would get instalynched for being so different?

[Argembarger]

Argembarger has a solid reason to be nervous (who wouldn't be on his second game?), and his behaviour is different from the last game when he was dopp, so I doubt he's scum.

Again with the claims that I'm nervous! I really don't see how you guys are pulling this out...

Also, this is only my second Paranormal game... I will totally admit I was nervous as HELL during the first game, but with Mafia in general I've pretty much reached the level of familiarity needed to be chill and zen about things, as I am with most things in real life.

Also don't use Meta. Or at least, don't expect it to be real evidence.

Anyway, alright, cool, I'm glad you actually have reasons to vote Jim aside from OMGUS. But the thing that actually makes me happy is that you are questioning others instead of one-track defending yourself. Thank you. Unvote.

MBP is one of my top scumpicks. Because I have to ask... Why claim Kook at all? You were asked for your alignment. Your alignment, as a Kook, is presumably Town. Sure, anyone investigating you will find out otherwise, but if you are Town nobody should have a good reason to investigate you over somebody acting scummy. And as you were just answering a question about your alignment, you would safely be able to say "town" without it being a lie.

Plus, if someone did decide to investigate you and believed that you were a dopp because of it, as long as you were being exceedingly pro-town up until then, you could THEN claim kook and continue to scumhunt as if nothing had happened. Maybe I'm taking this hypothetical situation a bit far, but that's probably what I would do, personally, as Kook.

And if you got killed/lynched because of it anyway, well, it's because you were a Kook. Them's the breaks.

I say you are among my top scumpicks because, instead of just saying Town, which would have been a true fact for your alignment as a Kook, you went all shy and coy with it and roleclaimed without a good reason. Personally, I find preemptive defenses and claims to be scummy.

And I'd be willing to lynch you just to get that wine out of my face.
MysteriousBluePuppet, them's the breaks.

[Argembarger]

Oh, and Zath: I don't see any practical way to figure out the innate bastardness of this game before Day 2, but then again, I don't have any particular insights to offer up at this time either. Presumably, if somebody town-aligned knew something important, it'd have come out by now.

[Org]

Dariush:  That's how the game is played.  If we sit around twiddling our thumbs and don't lynch anyone, the dopps will eventually eat us all.

As for voting, I usually random vote once or twice, then settle into a period of questioning until I find something juicy.  ToonyMan is, as said, not being super helpful, and I would have voted him without that post right before my last.  You're nervous and jumpy. 

Why do you think it is scummy to want to lynch anyone?  What benefit do you see from not lynching D1?  Hint:  Any answer to the second question that involved the words "agent" or "role" is wrong.

Zathras:  Don't you think lynching someone for a kook claim is a good way to make sure no one ever claims it again?

Org:  Do you think that if you started a game being very active, wordy, and helpful, you would get instalynched for being so different?

Eh. Possibly.

[JanusTwoface]

if you're a kook, you should claim it now.  No claiming it after an inspection shows you as scum.

Interesting; and also interesting that no other takers have spoken.

Not really on either. Leafsnail pushed the same thing last game and there's rarely more than 1 Kook per game, if that.

All: we don't seem to have made that much progress with the hunting so far, so a question in a slightly different vein: what about the puzzle? There's a puzzle out there, and I see little interest in solving it so far. We are told explicitly that flavour may be outright false, so I say that it's not the case that there are only two dopps out there.

There's really nothing saying that there even *is* a puzzle so far, other than the meta argument that this is a Bastard Mod. Could be different.

That being said, I have a feeling that if anything is different, it'll be something to do with us all being locked in a government-run facility. Kill the Agent, or something similar perhaps.  We'll see tonight.

Win conditions seem to be somewhat tied to the puzzle...  Thoughts? Ideas? Does anyone have a piece of the puzzle they'd like to share with the group?

Do you? Otherwise, why would you assume that win conditions seem to be somewhat tied to the puzzle?

Seriously, his replies were scummy enough for me, and he hasn't done anything else. Yes, you're right that it saves an Agent an inspection, but not a scanner or telepath, and if he flips, we don't need to either inspect him or take his word for it! Ain't that pretty?

This is why people don't want to claim Kook.  And why Kook's exist from a meta perspective for that matter.

As for voting, I usually random vote once or twice, then settle into a period of questioning until I find something juicy.  ToonyMan is, as said, not being super helpful, and I would have voted him without that post right before my last.  You're nervous and jumpy. 

Day 1 ends tonight. You should vote someone. See Exhibit A below.

Also don't use Meta. Or at least, don't expect it to be real evidence.

On some people, meta works. Pandarsenic jumps to mind, for example. You, I don't have enough experience with to make a meta call.

I say you are among my top scumpicks because, instead of just saying Town, which would have been a true fact for your alignment as a Kook, you went all shy and coy with it and roleclaimed without a good reason. Personally, I find preemptive defenses and claims to be scummy.

I think he explained this rather well as not knowing that he could claim (rather than just not claiming by quoting the PM).  There are better lynch targets.

Eh. Possibly.

See Exhibit A: Org.

Argembarger: ToonyMan
Jim Groovester: Dariush
Jokerman-EXE: Leafsnail, Mysteriousbluepuppet
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Argembarger, Zathras
Org: JanusTwoface
ToonyMan: Jim Groovester

Argembarger, you tied the vote. Did you know that when you cast it?

Org is my top choice to lynch, followed by Jokerman-EXE and ToonyMan.


Thoughts so far:

• Mysteriousbluepuppet - probably just new
• Zathras - helpful, leaning towards town, too focused on Bastarditude
• Jim Groovester - focused on Dariush, possibly town, probably wrong
• Org - useless, lynch him
• Toaster - not commiting on vote
• Argembarger - no read in particular, tied the vote on the end day which is odd
• Dariush - volitile, null tell for him
• Leafsnail - lurking (null tell for him), alignment might be tied to MBP's
• ToonyMan - more unhelpful than usual, possibly a scummy trait for him
• Jokerman-EXE - 3 posts all game, all were passive responses, scummy

[Argembarger]

In my mind it wasn't so much a "It's the last day" thing as a "There are 8 hours left, let's see if my vote does something in those 8 hours".

Obviously I don't want the day to end in a tie, and I will withdraw my vote if it looks like it will come to that.

However, if meta IS something you say we should consider, then voting Jokerman for being passive and lurky on Day 1 is exactly the same as voting Org for being Org. I don't want to really do either, as they both feel like policy lynches to me.

I'm still for MBP right now, and I'm not really thinking of my vote in terms of who other people are voting. Just like you are unconcerned with voting someone with only one vote to their name. If someone else decides to follow your lead and vote Org right now, they will also be tying the vote.

Hell, even better: How about an Extension?

[ToonyMan]

What- specifically, and hopefully with quotes- about Argem's demeanor do you not like?
Why are you being so terse and reluctant to answer questions?  Don't deny there were questions- you'd be going back to obtuse ToonyMan.

He goes off and explains publicly that he's still filling out his meta and thus shouldn't be targeted or accused by such means.  This was the only post I went off, when I made this post.  Which was the first accusation I think.

I have more info now though.

Ignoring Darisuh's post which I disagree with.  First he dismissed meta tells as false, which I disagree with as well because you start getting tells the moment you make your first post, even in the same game.  Second he questions MBP choice to reveal that he's a kook, which isn't wrong at all.  I was just confused when he was doing it in an incredibly soft claim way, but most importantly he votes MBP because of his kook claim.  That's ill-judgment.  That's not a reason at all.

My other suspicions fall upon Janus for doing that thing he does where it feels like he's playing football from the bleachers, not too much though, because he does this as both.  Jim is probably town because he's being an aggressive manhole, and either Org or Jokerman lastly.  Because they need to play the game of mafia.

[Mephansteras]

The Monitor
Argembarger: ToonyMan
Jim Groovester: Dariush
Jokerman-EXE: Leafsnail, Mysteriousbluepuppet
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Argembarger, Zathras
Org: JanusTwoface
ToonyMan: Jim Groovester


Day ends ~5PM Pacific Today. 1 Vote for an Extension. 4 votes to extend will move the day out to ~5pm Pacific Friday.

Note that due to the holidays day endings are even more approximate than usual.

[Argembarger]

Any particular reason you had to be pressed so hard by so many people just to give reasons for your basic suspicions?

[Toaster]

Toony:  Thank you.  That's a good solid post- please do more of that in the future.


Argembarger:

Obviously I don't want the day to end in a tie, and I will withdraw my vote if it looks like it will come to that.

-snip-

I'm still for MBP right now, and I'm not really thinking of my vote in terms of who other people are voting. Just like you are unconcerned with voting someone with only one vote to their name. If someone else decides to follow your lead and vote Org right now, they will also be tying the vote.

This is pretty contradictory.  Do you care about the other votes or not?  Further, I'm really against your logic on lynching MBP on a Kook claim.  If it was in response to a Dopp result on him, sure, but for doing it D1?  Would you rather he not claim it at all?


Org:  Your uselessness looks intentional.  Are you a Spore Spreader?


Janus:  Putting an FoS for someone for tying a vote at two in an 11-man game has got to be one of the weakest reasons I've seen.  You might as well FoS me for doing it, too.

Do you think Org could be a Spore Spreader?


Zath:  In addition to my question above, which race do you think the bastardry revolves around the most- human, dopp, or alien?

Finally, I am completely down for an extension.  There's more to shake out here.