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[JanusTwoface]

Hurr. Jim has taken the role of Captain Obvious and I didn't notice?

Apparently not. And saying that he was Captain Obvious implies that he actually believe what he said, which contradicts the reason you were voting him for it.

So, you didn't change your vote from someone you thought was innocent merely because someone was lynched for this thing in other game? You seriously fail at inventing reasons for voting.

The didn't miss lynch. The town *lost the game* because of an 11th hour vote change.

If you didn't expect me to defend myself, why had you even posted links to my posts? For future reference when you need the next innocent to hang?

Notice how only you and Leafsnail have done so?

So, you admit that you posted a bunch of WIFOM and expect us to believe it?

Just because it's WIFOM doesn't mean it's not true... That's the entire point of WIFOM, for it to work it has to have at least a strong chance that it could go either way.

Here are my suspicion, updated for JTF grasping at straws

Grasping at straws how exactly?

Jim: I stand behing my FoS. Day is long and id rather do a informed vote. From what i have seen on JTF till the day began hes headed for the noose. Accordingly JanusTwoFace

... you can change your vote.  Also, welcome to the bandwagon.

JanusTwoFace, I think staying in the shadows would have been much more profitable for you.

No crap. This is *exactly* the point I made earlier. I'm completely capable of being ignored until the end game, why in the world would I attract this much attention? Note the day end vote count.  Argembarger would have been lynched without me... I could easily have stayed on Org or moved to any number of other people without kicking up this much crap.

in my mind, the most important being you basically asking for a Warden or guardian to come forward, wich is basically something only a scum (or a veryyy noobish town, wich you aren't)

... no. That's just wrong. If we have a Warden who blocked someone and there was no kill, the *absolutely* should claim. Trading a good chance at half the scumteam for a Warden (that may have a Guardian)? Not a question.

Guardian (as I've said twice now) would be a more problematic claim, but it would get us a more-confirmed (not totally, but getting there) townie. That's up to the Guardian more though.


For everyone's refernce, know this: A bandwagon like this essentially never forms on scum without some sort of roleclaim. Even if you don't believe that this game, keep it in mind in future games.

[Dariush]

Hurr. Jim has taken the role of Captain Obvious and I didn't notice?

Apparently not. And saying that he was Captain Obvious implies that he actually believe what he said, which contradicts the reason you were voting him for it.

If that was a typo and you wanted to say "you believe what he said", then what was the point of our discussion just now? All right, cross that reason out. There still remains about a million of them.

So, you didn't change your vote from someone you thought was innocent merely because someone was lynched for this thing in other game? You seriously fail at inventing reasons for voting.

The didn't miss lynch. The town *lost the game* because of an 11th hour vote change.

So it was townie that was lynched? You know, it's kinda suspicious - saying how your actions would have gone in another game where the one who did them was scum...

If you didn't expect me to defend myself, why had you even posted links to my posts? For future reference when you need the next innocent to hang?

Notice how only you and Leafsnail have done so?

Once more, WHY did you post those accusations if you weren't expecting us to defend ourselves? And notice how everyone except me and Leafsnail ignored them?

So, you admit that you posted a bunch of WIFOM and expect us to believe it?

Just because it's WIFOM doesn't mean it's not true... That's the entire point of WIFOM, for it to work it has to have at least a strong chance that it could go either way.

I hope you understand that you just stated that there is a high chance of you being scum?

JanusTwoFace, I think staying in the shadows would have been much more profitable for you.

No crap. This is *exactly* the point I made earlier. I'm completely capable of being ignored until the end game, why in the world would I attract this much attention? Note the day end vote count.  Argembarger would have been lynched without me... I could easily have stayed on Org or moved to any number of other people without kicking up this much crap.

First you say that I'm calling for a passive game, and now you're admitting to not doing anything about the lynch of the man you thought was innocent... Reasons for you to hang pile up like snow in blizzard.

A bandwagon like this essentially never forms on scum without some sort of roleclaim. Even if you don't believe that this game, keep it in mind in future games.

So, scum that never roleclaims has essentially no chance to get bandwagon'd? Is that what you are trying to say?

[JanusTwoface]

Are you being intentionally daft?

RE 11th hour lynch:
It was a townie that cast the deciding vote to lynch a townie instead of the remaining scum powerrole in a last minute decision. Ask Zathras. Last minute vote changes rarely go well.

RE accusations:
I posted what I had on everyone. I sure as hell hope that no-one ignored them. Especially if this lynch goes through. I said that they didn't defend against them.

RE WIFOM:
The scum chance is well fulfilled by the thoughts of those on the bandwagon. You're (plural) ignoring the possibility of the innocence. :-/

RE end of yesterday:
1) wasn't convinced yesterday, notice how I didn't unvote
2) 11th hour vote change
3) what would have had me do? there wasn't another chance

RE bandwagon:
I swear you have to be doing this on purpose... It's not the scum that roleclaims. It's a townie with evidence to lynch them. Duh.

PFP

[Jim Groovester]

Something isn't right.

Unvote. JTF is scummy but not nearly scummy enough to warrant such a huge bandwagon so quickly.

Mysteriousbluepuppet. He waited to vote until he was sure he could get away with it.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Hahaha, oh wow Jim. I was the one to note the Bandwagon going on. But hey, do as you please. Clearly, if you are not convinced of your own points, knock yourself out. I'll argue later on if needed.

[ToonyMan]

Please don't use sarcasm in a game, maybe with huge faux sarcasm tags if you can't contain yourself.  Anyway, my opinion of Dariush hasn't really changed, as I said before.  At first I was more suspicious of Janus, but that's not very clear now, especially with his points he's made today that came along with his reply's to Dariush.

I would really like Jokerman to play the game though.  And I have a question for Dariush.  What do you intend to accomplish right now?  As in, short-term goals?

[Jim Groovester]

Hahaha, oh wow Jim. I was the one to note the Bandwagon going on. But hey, do as you please. Clearly, if you are not convinced of your own points, knock yourself out. I'll argue later on if needed.

I fail to see how pointing out a bandwagon absolves you of joining it.

[Toaster]

First, sorry for the late reply.

MBP:

Epic Guardian Win ? Judicious Tech use ?

If we got a guardian around, hi hit the bullseye!

Congratulating the doc- scumtell alert.

Why do you want your vote to be "informed?"  What's wrong with casting it to apply pressure on the person you think most scummy?


Dariush:  Why so much rage?  People cast vote- it happens.  You can't seem to get over it (and it came D1, no less)- why?


Zathras:  Let's see...


Janus:  He's less commital and wordy than usual, but I can't read much on him that doesn't involve meta.  Not really someone that concerns me right now.
Jim:  Agressive.  Seems to fit his town play, so townie in my book right now.
MBP:  See above.  Possible scum.
ToonyMan:  Seems to be putting in the minimum contribution, though he is now actually contributing.  Slight smell of scum from him, but not overwhelming.


Leafsnail:  You don't seem to care that I called you an alien yesterday.  Are you an alien?

[Jokerman-EXE]

Hmm. The argument between Dariush and JanusTwoFace has taken my interest; at first, I was going to vote JTF because a lot of his statements seemed to be ambiguous, and the way that Dariush pointed them out certainly illuminated them in a scummy light. However, the more I read, the more I start to see Janus' side, and the more it seems like Dariush is twisting everything JTF says to sound scummy. At this point, it's anyone's game, so I'll keep my vote out of that mess for now.

ToonyMan, I might have missed it, but what are your top picks for scum, and reasons why? I'm also interested to see your answer to Zathras' question about your thoughts on JTF and how they've changed.

Org...anything to say from you?

Zathras, did you feel like you were joining a bandwagon when you voted JTF, as Jim appears to think was developing? If so, do you think your reasons were strong enough to risk being a part of a bandwagon on a townie?

Jim, do you have any other reasons to vote MBP? (Not that that's not a good reason, I'm just asking.)

MBP,

[Jim Groovester]

Jim, do you have any other reasons to vote MBP? (Not that that's not a good reason, I'm just asking.)

No, not particularly. I didn't like how he kept his vote off of JTF until other people had voted him. When he voted I realized how much I didn't like it.

And he also pointed out a bandwagon on JTF... and then joins it? I don't know, calling something a bandwagon means you think there's a bunch of scum jumping on it because it's easy to vote, and then he goes and does the same thing.

While I'm thinking about it, he voted Zathras yesterday for not liking his kook claim, instead of Argembarger, who had the most votes. I get the feeling he avoided voting Argembarger because he knew he would flip town.

These are mostly hunches.

Also, how are people getting anything useful out of JTF and Dariush going back and forth? It's a bunch of uselessness, and then JTF responding to a bunch of uselessness.

[ToonyMan]

That would be Dariush, Zathras, and a combination of Org/Jokerman.  But then again the last two are in similar boats.  My opinion of Janus has changed mostly from this days reactions, plus I agree with his points he's made today that came along with his reply's to Dariush.  Good to see players are playing though, even on special events like the coming/or already here 2011.

[Leafsnail]

Leafsnail:  You don't seem to care that I called you an alien yesterday.  Are you an alien?

Honest answer?

I don't know.  Which is part of the reason I think scumhunting may be ineffective this game.

[ToonyMan]

Leafsnail:  You don't seem to care that I called you an alien yesterday.  Are you an alien?

Honest answer?

I don't know.  Which is part of the reason I think scumhunting may be ineffective this game.

What?  What kind of reaction is that?  Did you get a down bug over night?

[Dariush]

RE 11th hour lynch:
It was a townie that cast the deciding vote to lynch a townie instead of the remaining scum powerrole in a last minute decision. Ask Zathras. Last minute vote changes rarely go well.

If it's so hard for you to clearly say who voted for whom and what was the result, sorry for wasting your time.

RE accusations:
I posted what I had on everyone. I sure as hell hope that no-one ignored them. Especially if this lynch goes through. I said that they didn't defend against them.

Then what is the middle point between ignoring accusations and defending against them?

RE WIFOM:
The scum chance is well fulfilled by the thoughts of those on the bandwagon. You're (plural) ignoring the possibility of the innocence. :-/

We're ignoring the possibility of innocence of a player whose scumminess just barely doesn't bubble out of his ears? Interesting point.

RE end of yesterday:
1) wasn't convinced yesterday, notice how I didn't unvote
2) 11th hour vote change
3) what would have had me do? there wasn't another chance

1-2)

I'll admit it's unlikely, but it's possible.  When I first made the case, I thought it was a decent read on him.  Mostly through talking with him at the end of the day started to change my mind.  But I've learned not to change my vote that near the end of the day without a *really* good reason (you saw it happen to Zathras in the first Sorcerer's Apprentice), so I stuck with it.

You clearly state that the reason you didn't change your vote was that you've seen what happens when people do. Now you say that you weren't convinced in his innocence. Contradiction much?
3) Another chance to do what? And you didn't even try to free Argembarger from lynch, you just rolled along with bandwagon.

Something isn't right.

Unvote. JTF is scummy but not nearly scummy enough to warrant such a huge bandwagon so quickly.

Mysteriousbluepuppet. He waited to vote until he was sure he could get away with it.

Oh hey, guess who noticed the imminent lynch of his partner and quickly changed his vote to avert it by getting out of the bandwagon he started... And with one idiotic reason against MBP against several convincing ones against JTF.
Jim and JTF, you're scum. Stop trying to wriggle out of it.

Dariush:  Why so much rage?  People cast vote- it happens.  You can't seem to get over it (and it came D1, no less)- why?

That vote against me was just the first push. After that, I stated several _hundred reasons as to why he is scum.

[Jim Groovester]

Something isn't right.

Unvote. JTF is scummy but not nearly scummy enough to warrant such a huge bandwagon so quickly.

Mysteriousbluepuppet. He waited to vote until he was sure he could get away with it.

Oh hey, guess who noticed the imminent lynch of his partner and quickly changed his vote to avert it by getting out of the bandwagon he started... And with one idiotic reason against MBP against several convincing ones against JTF.
Jim and JTF, you're scum. Stop trying to wriggle out of it.

. . .

This makes no sense.

I'm not going to dignify it with an explanation why. It will be immediately apparent to everyone except you.