Sorry to keep you waiting, the year didn't even wait for my hangover to pass before it started kicking me in the 'nads... but I'll catch up. Thanks Meph for the extension, hopefully the next 24 hours will see some real progress (that was the last available extension, yes?).
Let's start with Janus. First, I'll quote my original message to which you reply, because you leave
substantial, important parts of it unaddressed, bolded below:
JanusTwoface, you are scum. I've read your multiple squirming attempts since the day started, but you have not addressed my pending questions from yesterday. I want more than "oh, I was wrong, I thought he was scum, oh shucks". I want specific answers to your clearly spurious and fallacious comments about how Arg went for "easy lynches", how people wouldn't guard someone who they think is town, how "distracting" is a scumtell, how your Arg case was loaded on the early game and what that meant, why did you think MBP was town (do you still?), and so on. Links: [1][2]
Then you take small snippets of questions from the linked posts, specifically the ones with questions you had already answered, and focused on those instead of the intended restated questions. I find your evasion
massively scummy, since you a) know better, and b) intentionally skipped the questions in the post to which you replied.
I'll answer your points, then I'll repost the original questions in the linked posts that you've skipped over three times already.
I read your responses, and you failed to address several important points:
- Please justify your calling MBP town, with details. If you think my logic is faulty when calling him scummy, please point out why/how. Why didn't you even consider the "null tell" position?
- In that vein, I'm interested in you contrasting your case against Arg with my case against MBP. We seem to have seen similar levels of scumminess on our respective targets, and for similar reasons, yet we read them differently.
Didn't think that lynching him for claiming Kook was a good idea and there were far scummier targets. Ones that are still alive for that matter. Looking back, he is scummy, see the list here, again in a spoiler.
You didn't answer the question: you said D1 he was
town. You didn't say "lynching him for claiming kook is a bad idea," you said he was
town! Why? Justify your position of calling him town then, please, even if you no longer think he is. The question made the clear distinction of scum, town, or "null tell" (to be assessed based on other criteria). You saw this, and still called him town. Why?
You also say "while there were far scummier targets." What targets? Please list them out. Who was scummier than MBP at the time yesterday? You evidently think Arg was, so as I ask above, compare your Arg case to my MBP case, and see if you can honestly say "far scummier targets" were there. Or was it someone else? If so, why didn't you vote them?
Now you think MBP is "scummy," but your case against him is as flimsy as the one on Arg, your "post lists" are worse than useless (they may be useful for
you, but they mean nothing to us when you attempt to present them as "evidence"). Please summarise and restate your case.
Now, for the telling part. You said in your reply "[1]: these two questions, here's my two line answer", but you
skipped over these, bolded for emphasis; please answer them:
Also, how is the fact that there's only two scum leads to probability that he is Kook? 
The best bet for 2 scum is to lie low and not attract any attention to yourself (including for the lying low). With a Kook claim, I can almost guarantee that MBP won't get guarded, has a decent chance of being nightkilled, and/or will probably get inspected by a Telepath / role inspection.
Bollocks. Several people seem to think he's town, so why wouldn't them guard him if they can? Wouldn't you guard someone you think is town? And were he town, why would he get nightkilled? The WIFOM is useful for the scum, and it's not like he's is an asset. On the rest, "best bet" is not "only way", and telepaths & detectives will miss most dopps; sure, he'll probably be targeted by them, but it will probably not be conclusive. You know all this, so I question whether you said the above in good faith.
Your case on Arg is bullshit. Let me summarise:
- Distracting: if he was doing that instead of content, I'd see it. Otherwise it's a non sequitur, and it's your job not to be distracted. Or do you think he was actively and intentionally trying to distract us away from seeing suspicious things by posting a head-explode picture in response to an Org comment? Where you distracting us by your earlier "mostly joking" thing about how lynching the spore spreader was worth it?
- Gone for easy lynches: bullshit. I rebutted this in my last, but you conveniently ignored it. Jumping onto a bandwagon or otherwise getting a free lynch is indeed scummy, but he's not done that; he decided MBP was his target, and he committed to it, even when it was no longer an easy lynch. He's still voting the same way than when you said he went for the easy lynches. Is he still scummy for it?
- "Lynch the kook": if it was just for the kook thing, maybe. But the dude is also scummy, and he points it out, yet you completely ignore this. MBP has just as many or more scummy acts than you have on Arg, so I question whether your vote is on good faith or not.
However, I notice that your analysis of him is loaded on the early game. You include more about his RV, Enchanter choice for an answer, or early exchanges with Org/Toony than about his most recent exchanges where he provides more content and context. I think there are two reasons for this:
- You first decided to vote him, and then set off to find "justifications" for it, starting from the beginning. You latched on whatever low-hanging fruit you found. Oh, look, a youtube link! Shiny!
- It's easier to attack people if you ignore their responses.
No. I ironically think you are scum for the reason you say he is: going for an easy lynch. The difference is I'm being sincere. Your arguments are still way insufficient for a fourth on bandwagon vote, you ignore the most important parts of the situation, you ignored several of my earlier questions, and your "list" is completely made up after the fact to justify your jumping onto the bandwagon instead of an analysis and cause for a vote. You, JanusTwoface, are scum.
All the bolded points still stand. You've read them several times, and failed to answer them. Your "oh, I've answered all questions, does nobody read my spoiler tags? woe is me!" position is disingenuous and dishonest. Answer the freaking questions: why did you lynch Arg based on a bullshit case?
For context, two more quotes:
Screwed up on Argembarger. I'll blame not having time over the holiday season. So it goes.
I want more than "oh, I was wrong, I thought he was scum, oh shucks". [...] A misread on someone causing an accidental mislynch is one thing. A case based on bullshit and made up reasons, with clearly fabricated lists of "evidence", about which you refuse to answer questions, on the other hand, is the work of scum. You are scum.
But let's go to the second post.
[2]
Questions for you:[...]
Answered here (in the spoiler).
Again, you cherry picked the stuff you had already answered. How about the other stuff? I specifically ask you about the
unanswered questions, not to relink me to your previous pile.
Here are a handful (trimmed because I reasked most of them in the other post above, where you also ignored them):
You two not just believe it's a null tell, but actually believe him to be town!
There's only two likely possibilities: scum fake claiming and Kook. Kooks are town.
Sure, there are two possible values for his actual alignment, but there are three for your perception of it: surely scum, town, or somewhere in between (to be weighed based on other criteria, relative to others). You went to the extreme that clears him, and failed to address the points about the logic behind it. That's not what you normally do. I ask again, what is your rationale for claiming he's town? Was my earlier logic faulty?
[...]
Reply #164 - More picture responses; Really? picture responses? C'mon!
[url=http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=72923.msg1829043#msg1829043]Reply #184 - Requests top three scumpicks from everyone, going for 4 'easy lynches' (as of that point). And yet, he has stuck by them (or at least the first one) even though it's no longer "easy"... so what gives? Scummy or not? Why is it in the list?
No, Janus. I find that post list of yours of things you find "bothersome" to be made up to justify a spurious bandwagon vote as opposed to being a list of reasons that made you vote that way. I'm not defending Arg, I'm saying your attack lacks logic and is flimsy and insufficient; that plus your clearing of MBP without justification and participation in that discussion leaves you smelling very scummy.
I quote them so people can see that you left them unanwered, but they are generally covered by the points in the previous post above, so kindly concentrate your answering efforts there if you are short on time.
A misread on someone causing an accidental mislynch is one thing. A case based on bullshit and made up reasons, with clearly fabricated lists of "evidence", about which you refuse to answer questions, on the other hand, is the work of scum. You are scum.
What about this (spoiler), this, and this to a minor extent? I get the feeling that you're just completely ignoring my spoilers... Would you rather I just not use than and wall of text whenever I post?
Bullshit. I did read them (and I don't mind the spoilers, though I tend not to use them much myself; I don't mind walls of text), but they
do not address the points about your case being bullshit; hell, the last two are not even addressed to my questions. Your only replies to my direct questions are in the first link, and is the same tripe you relink at the top. The second are one-liners to Arg, and the third is contentless. No. Answer
all the questions, not just the ones you consider easy or can get out of with a link.
And you didn't answer the question in my previous post. You're voting me now, please do so.
I think you mean this one:
Do you really think I would be as sloppy as I was yesterday as scum? Last time I did something equally stupid as what you seem to think I did and got lynched for it was in dakarian's Near-Mountainous back in January. </WIFOM>
Yes, WIFOM. Shouldn't even be answered. But yes, just as I think you can be very shrewd and underhanded, you can also be careless. Moreso during holidays when one has less time to polish lies to a shine, or may be drunk or otherwise intoxicapated, sure. I see the work of scum, so I point it out as scummy. "why would he?" or "he'd never!" are not excuses to ignore it. On the other hand, you've proved quite apt at dismissing earlier suspicions, so your sober scum hand is clearly at play, by carefully masking lies, giving half truths, selectively answering questions and so on, yeah, that's Scum Janus all the way.
One last, not that important, but telling because I've seen you use it a few times already:
Mostly through talking with him at the end of the day started to change my mind. But I've learned not to change my vote that near the end of the day without a *really* good reason (you saw it happen to Zathras in the first Sorcerer's Apprentice), so I stuck with it.
Bullshit. a) you never gave any impression of mind changing, on the contrary; b) a town mislynch is a *really* good reason; and c) your simile doesn't apply: that was mylo, this was D1; that was a decisive vote, yours wasn't; hell if you weren't sure, you would have unvoted and he'd have hung anyway. But no, you wanted to hang him, confident that you'd be able to talk yourself out of it D2. And you nearly had, but we'll nail you now.
That's it for Janus. I do have questions for others and other suspicious, but this is long enough, and I still to catch up a bit, so we'll start here.
People, make no mistake: JanusTwoface is scum.
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