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[Archangel]

Sorry about the triple post.

I've gotten to the start of page 5, and I have a small chunk written, and though it's not enough to post, it is a start and it's better than the nothing I had before. I'm beginning to feel tired, and my father's telling me to get ready to go to bed, so I'm going to stop now, and get back to work tomorrow morning. Extend so I can be sure I'll be able to post whatever I write. Feel free to lynch me if I fail to deliver.

[Org]

Yeah guys, sorry bout that. I had to do some children's book in one day yesterday and I couldn't really get online.

[JanusTwoface]

That's still no content from the either of you...  
Try to *at least* get one good post in during the next 12 hours, eh?

I'll be back around 3-4pm EST.

[Dariush]

Firstly, unvote.
Jack:

I don't follow anymore.

Who are you stating you voted as a target of the most convenience?

I'm stating that, at the time when I voted for Janus, MBP was still the most convenient target for a bandwagon jumper: he had more votes on him and was an easy target at the time.

Instead, I voted Janus for the reasons I've given.

Finally, as some people think I'm jumping from bandwagon to bandwagon, I felt like noting that there were only two times when I could've been considered to have done that.  That is to say, not three.  (only other person who was getting a bunch of votes was me, and I'm not voting for myself!)

You directly contradict your earlier point about voting for the most convenient target and confirm that you've bandwagoned two times out of your total three votes. Explain. Preferably without referring to your previous experience or lack of sleep.
Jim:

So, if JTF was trying to intimidate the new guy, wasn't I doing the same thing? What makes it okay for me to do but not for JTF?

Uhhh...

I should mention that I'm satisfied with his answer, given his utterly mangled previous experience with mafia, and you're entirely full of crap, so I'm going to unvote him, and vote you instead.

Zathras.

So, you accept his innocence because of pretty shitty explanation and make a totally OMGUS vote. Why do I feel that I will be next in your list, Jim?

I see that JTF has fallen pretty quiet lately, which may or may not mean a thing, but my points against him still stand.

[Toaster]

Sorry about the delay: I needed a clear head to go through all that.  It was definitely worth the effort, though.


First up, Dariush.  You give me crap for asking "useless" questions, but this was after you asked me what my favorite color was.  You then totally fail to answer my follow up question:

Actually, I've only played with you as scum. Playing on the same team as you is definitely better. What have I learned? That you can only be found out by a totally random chance, Toaster.
As to questioning...
Toaster, what is your favourite colour? Don't try to wriggle from the answer.
But seriously, NativeForeigner, what are you going to deduce from the answer to your question?

I meant in the same game as me, not same team as me.  Did you like being town or scum better?

Green.  What are YOU going to deduce from that?

So what's the answer, then?  Why can you ask "useless" questions and not me?




Janus and MBP both have flaws in their argument that I'll point out, but there's also a wealth of information I got in other people's interactions with their argument.  Anyone who says you can't get good information D1 should be reading this game.

MBP's reaction to Janus's question was more abrasive than was justified.  Janus's attacks back to him are weak, however: he sneaks in an appeal to emotion when questioning him.  Later, he seems to plug in a deflationary comment when the argument seems to be going poorly for him. 

Specific question to Janus next:  How is MBP "trying to conform to the norm" here?  It looks like you say he's conforming by... asking questions?  I don't understand.

Specific question to MBP:  How is Janus "trying to lynch just to get credibility" here?  That doesn't make sense.

MBP then makes a scummy move: an attempt to blackmail the town, another form of appeal to emotion.  He's starting to get inflammatory here as well.   Later, asked for scumpicks, he comes back with lurkers and a newbie- safe choices.  Janus doesn't do much better, coming up with two people that haven't contributed at all.  Janus rightly points out that MBP isn't scum hunting anyone else, but just responding to attacks.  However, I maintain that Janus is almost as guilty as MBP here.  The only other person he's really gone after (at the point he said this) is Archangel, and that's an extremely safe attack; Archangel has posted essentially no content.

Next, Janus comes out with another appeal to emotion defense.  MBP doesn't help himself by denying he is over-defensive while failing to open any new attacks on others.  Janus, when I ask him for his other suspicions, gives the same answers as earlier, plus adding on Zath for his vote and tunnelling, plus myself for a gut feeling reason.

In conclusion, Janus is scummier, but MBP isn't exactly clear.  Please see questions for both of you above- also MBP, please answer my previous question.



Other things and questions that I got out of the reread:

Leafsnail:  What is your read on MBP?  Do you suspect anyone other than Janus and Ottofar?


Native:  What is your read on Janus?  Do you suspect anyone other than MBP?  Three of your four posts are attacking him, and you've mentioned nobody else.


Zathras:

Riddle me this, all of you voting me: Are you confident enough that I'm scum that you'd risk killing one of the most active players on Day 1?

Oh, are you playing the "if you lynch me you'll regret it!" card? Yeah, that's another nail in your coffin.

This is a valid attack.  However, you ignore MBP when he does the exact same thing:

Will be so funny to see me lynched and then see you squirm that you lost a usefull role to your own damn lack of reading.

Please explain the disparity here.



Finally, Org:

Spoiler: OOC (click to show/hide)

Mind if I ask what it is you do?  You've mentioned the Forth Reich and children's books, and the incongruity has gotten my curiosity.

On topic, what do you make of Janus vs MBP?  Who outside that do you think is scummy?

[Jack A T]

Firstly, unvote.
Jack:

I don't follow anymore.

Who are you stating you voted as a target of the most convenience?

I'm stating that, at the time when I voted for Janus, MBP was still the most convenient target for a bandwagon jumper: he had more votes on him and was an easy target at the time.

Instead, I voted Janus for the reasons I've given.

Finally, as some people think I'm jumping from bandwagon to bandwagon, I felt like noting that there were only two times when I could've been considered to have done that.  That is to say, not three.  (only other person who was getting a bunch of votes was me, and I'm not voting for myself!)

You directly contradict your earlier point about voting for the most convenient target and confirm that you've bandwagoned two times out of your total three votes. Explain. Preferably without referring to your previous experience or lack of sleep.

...I did what?  I'm getting a bit confused here.

I was saying, in each post, that no, I didn't vote for the most convenient target that second time.  MBP was still the most convenient, but I voted for Janus.  What you and Jim somehow saw as "Yes, I voted for the most convenient target" was me saying "No, I voted for a less convenient target."

Essentially, when I voted for Mysterious, he was a convenient target, but I had better reasons than that (and I gave them).  When I voted for Janus, he was INconvenient: less votes, less likely to accidentally incriminate himself, but I had reasons to vote for him (and I gave them, again).  And I was suspicious of Janus way back during my MBP vote.

And that 2 out of 3 thing...First, I haven't even voted three times.  Second, that "second" thing was an attempt to semi-sarcastically bring the allegations against me down to a more sensible point (though I can see that being misinterpreted...unmarked sarcasm...).  I had only done what people decided to view as bandwagon-jumping twice, not three times (as was semi-alleged).  I don't want the evidence against me to be stronger than what actually exists.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Answer to Toaster:

Mostly back then, i tought Janus was forcing helplessly to lynch me on faulty premises.  As such, agressive tunneling for a Janus/scum would be helpfull on 2 points:

1) It's a safe mislynch. After all, it's day 1, it's somewhat normal to lynch town day 1. There not really any stigma about.

2) People can't argue with you that you are useless. Sure, you caused a mislynch, but it's all understandable, and few people would look back. That is the credibility i'm referring to. Why lynch him, if there are lurkers around doing nothing ? In fact, he appealed to that once people started voting him.

[Dariush]

First up, Dariush.  You give me crap for asking "useless" questions, but this was after you asked me what my favorite color was.  You then totally fail to answer my follow up question:

Actually, I've only played with you as scum. Playing on the same team as you is definitely better. What have I learned? That you can only be found out by a totally random chance, Toaster.
As to questioning...
Toaster, what is your favourite colour? Don't try to wriggle from the answer.
But seriously, NativeForeigner, what are you going to deduce from the answer to your question?

I meant in the same game as me, not same team as me.  Did you like being town or scum better?

Green.  What are YOU going to deduce from that?

So what's the answer, then?  Why can you ask "useless" questions and not me?

...Now this becomes just plain idiocy. I knew I would be asked about why I didn't add a question to my randomvote, so I added a joke one before the aura of paranoia and utter seriousness came on. I certainly didn't expect an accusation based on it...

[Toaster]

MBP:  I see.  However, you didn't answer my other question:

On Janus vs MBP:  I need to reread this, but my brain isn't working right- I need sleep.  I'll just ask you both the same question and reread in the morning:
Who, besides the other, do you think is scummy and why?

Dariush:  I voted you because I wanted an answer to my question.  You still didn't give it, and said you asked only to avoid suspicion (scummy) to boot.

What ARE you going to deduce from my answer?

[Mr.Person]

Answer to Toaster:

Mostly back then, i tought Janus was forcing helplessly to lynch me on faulty premises.  As such, agressive tunneling for a Janus/scum would be helpfull on 2 points:

1) It's a safe mislynch. After all, it's day 1, it's somewhat normal to lynch town day 1. There not really any stigma about.

2) People can't argue with you that you are useless. Sure, you caused a mislynch, but it's all understandable, and few people would look back. That is the credibility i'm referring to. Why lynch him, if there are lurkers around doing nothing ? In fact, he appealed to that once people started voting him.

Still not scumhunting.

[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
Dariush: Toaster
JanusTwoface: Jack A T, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Zathras
Jim Groovester: Dariush
Mysteriousbluepuppet: JanusTwoface, Mr.Person, NativeForeigner, Ottofar
Ottofar: Leafsnail
Zathras: Jim Groovester


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today

[Toaster]

Person:  Do you think Janus is scum hunting?  Who besides MBP do you suspect and why?

[Darvi]

Depending on the number of votes I guess. No use voting for someone who has no chance of getting lynched anyway, right?

Edit: What? This wasn't supposed to be posted here!

[Mephansteras]

Depending on the number of votes I guess. No use voting for someone who has no chance of getting lynched anyway, right?

No comments from people not in the game, please.

[JanusTwoface]

Yes, he is, isn't he? I do it because you're being wilfully inconsistent, which is intrinsically scummy. That you are doing it to defend someone who I think is scum is even scummier. Something smells funny...

*sniff*

Yeah. Scum. I thought so.


^{Oh noes, that's the third time!}

Do you really think that either Jim or I would do that? (Attach ourselves openly to the other if both were scum)

He really does have the whole of what I've been trying to say though.

If you have any specific questions that you want an answer to, have at them.

I see that JTF has fallen pretty quiet lately, which may or may not mean a thing, but my points against him still stand.

Did you read my post right before yours? I was asleep and then teaching all morning. Now I'm back.

So, if JTF was trying to intimidate the new guy, wasn't I doing the same thing? What makes it okay for me to do but not for JTF?

Uhhh...

"Why me? = Fry me." Is a simple phrase for a relatively basic scumtell. The phrase is self-explanatory, when a player inquires why he is being voted or suspected ("Why me"), usually in contrast to his general inactivity or unimportant activity, it is as if they are drawing attention themselves and their performance negatively (Fry me.).

How does that apply? It looks like you are applying it to Jim, but he wasn't the one being voted for it. And neither of us are being inactive. The last bit could apply in the 'drawing attention [to] themselves', but it's actually a valid point (and not a negative point). So I really don't think that applies.

'Why me?' without any good reason and without doing anything helpful? Sure. 'Why me?' when you are being helpful... Not so much.

Thanks for the link though, hadn't seen that site before.

Janus, when I ask him for his other suspicions, gives the same answers as earlier, plus adding on Zath for his vote and tunnelling, plus myself for a gut feeling reason.

Because that's who I'm suspicious of. Mysteriousbluepuppet has yet to do anything proactive (scumhunting or otherwise), thus I'm still voting him. Zathras has done exactly what he's doing now as scum. I'm not voting him mainly for the same reason, I'd rather he not vote me. If he's scum, that's dealwithable on Day 2 or 3. Lynch the inactive scummy players first so they (possibly but unlikely) realize the error of their ways and so the game doesn't die of inactivity.