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[Jim Groovester]

IC, dumpass.

It's my job to criticize your scumhunting.

And I've done plenty of scumhunting, far more than you anyway.

Accusing people who are scumhunting of not scumhunting is a pretty blatant scumtell. Means you don't have anything else to go on.

If you want names, I'd say Jim, and Webadict, because it makes us depend on them more, and thus subconsciously more trusting.

Suspecting experienced players because of their experience is WIFOM.

[breadbocks]

Yes, and in this bm variation, you (Jim) have the job of scumhunting too.

I fail to see how pointing out the fact that we'd (The non-IC players) become more reliant on the ICs that are left is WIFOM. Enlighten me.

[Jim Groovester]

Because you're suggesting it's part of our scummy plan to win the game.

You're gambling that we are scum, because we have the skill and experience necessary to look indistinguishable from town if that were the case. But that's exactly what it is: a gamble. You don't have any game-related reason to think either myself or webadict are scum. There's nothing you can point to to say, "This is a scummy thing they did." Instead, you're saying, "They are experienced; suspect them."

That's classic WIFOM so I have no idea why you're even suggesting it beyond that you're scum and don't have any idea what to do and are just grasping for anything you can.

[webadict]

If you want names, I'd say Jim, and Webadict, because it makes us depend on them more, and thus subconsciously more trusting.

Are... you being serious?

You are suspicious of us because we're good players?

Hahahaha. Nice attitude. It also means you've got no information and are basically pulling reasons from your nether regions. It's like, "Who can I lynch with the most bogus reason?"

In fact, you're just attacking anyone that points at you.

So, really, you've got about one post to make a legitimate case.

[Orangebottle]

I'm basically caught up.

My main suspects are Breadbocks and Webadict.

Why?

Breadbocks is basically chainsaw defending himself.
Supercharazad was being questioned by Toaster before Toaster was killed and Webadict replaced him.

So, Breadbocks, why are you being so extremely overdefensive? Also, I was looking for a more specific answer to my last question.

[Jim Groovester]

Breadbocks is basically chainsaw defending himself.

This makes no sense to me.

Supercharazad was being questioned by Toaster before Toaster was killed and Webadict replaced him.

This is a bad idea. You don't want to look into the night kill as a source for suspects. Since you don't know the motivations of the scum team for why they did it, there's no way to be certain about any of your conclusions.

It's better just to ignore the night kill and look at people's day games.

[Orangebottle]

I meant that, Jim.

Also, Breadbocks, ignore the second part of my question. I just noticed that you already answered that.

[Orangebottle]

In fact, you're just attacking anyone that points at you.

I meant that, Jim.

Also, Breadbocks, ignore the second part of my question. I just noticed that you already answered that.

Derp-freaking-tastic. I need to preview my posts.

[webadict]

Supercharazad was being questioned by Toaster before Toaster was killed and Webadict replaced him.

I want you to run that through your head one more time.

There are several reasons why that is wrong, but the very first is that it's WIFOM. You might as well have said that everyone that lynched major_sephiroth was scum as well. Every one of them. Because he was Town.

Second, if I were scum, I would've probably killed Heliman, especially since I know he's Town. Of course, that's WIFOM, so take it for what it's worth.

Third, I'm not Super. Any suspicion from Toaster due to Super is about as meaningful to me as someone out for revenge on me for my ancestor. It means nothing to me, because I didn't do it.

Fourth... Where does Toaster find Super suspicious? You've quoted nothing, but you say Toaster was suspicious of Super. Where? Toaster was suspicious of Heliman as of yesterday (which would clearly make my job easier as scum), and before that, he was voting major_sephiroth. So, somewhere in there, you seem to have fabricated this.

The closest thing I can find is this:

You didn't answer my question.

Says the person who didn't answer mine.

Which is a response to this:

Super:  You getting replaced will hurt the interest of others.  Yes, it's a long D1.  You don't have to pore over every detail for three walls of text a day; a post a day with content is fine if the day is protracted.

What did you mean by IC replacement?

It seems you'd like me to stay, is it because I'm the one that the scum wants to get lynched?

Are you trying to make an attack here?  If so, fine, but it's not clear at all.

So, where, oh where, are you making this up from?

And for that, you'll need to make an actual attack. Especially since your reasoning on breadbocks is basically a bandwagon. Your attack is that he is OMGUSing, which I'm going to say is about the easiest reason to use on him right now without providing anything new.

There we go, guys. Let's start making some real arguments here. It's the most efficient way to scumhunt.

[Heliman]

Finally back from Calc camp, now to post because I've been prodded Oh noes!

Now where should I start?


WUBA

Toaster was suspicious of Heliman as of yesterday (which would clearly make my job easier as scum), and before that, he was voting major_sephiroth. So, somewhere in there, you seem to have fabricated this.

He was merely doing a random question with a vote press, which he took awhile to get around to answering.



Jim Groovypants

You don't have any game-related reason to think either myself or webadict are scum.

Time for round two.
(Ok heli you can do this!)
Ding.
Ding.

I wasn't being serious. Of course I knew he didn't get muted just to avoid my question. I was being a dick to provoke him into responding sooner rather than later.

This statement is screams scum. I'll get to that in a moment. Before that, I'm going to square away Jim's Ace-in-the-hole IC ethos defense.

Jim, an IC has absolutely no business intentionally pissing off beginners ever. The only thing it serves to accomplish is making a player even less responsive to your advice, which, since you're actually trying to teach us newbies how to hunt effectively, doesn't help teach the player AT ALL.

Now for the scumminess. If you were trying to make bread post prematurely this would be a contradiction of one of the pieces of evidence you used here. In this post, you said that his reactionary behavior was scummy. BUT, with the post I just quoted, you admitted to actually trying to intentionally provoke breadbocks beforehand. This means that the whole operation you have going here is a trap to get an emotional player framed by intentionally provoking him to respond in a reactive way, and then using it as evidence against him. That is scummy. In fact, that is the scummiest thing I've ever heard of.

Jim, there is a difference between pissing someone off to see if they drop scumtells and pissing someone off in order to engineer your own. Vote Jim Groovester.

[The King of Eggs]

Jim Groovypants

You don't have any game-related reason to think either myself or webadict are scum.

Time for round two.
(Ok heli you can do this!)
Ding.
Ding.

I wasn't being serious. Of course I knew he didn't get muted just to avoid my question. I was being a dick to provoke him into responding sooner rather than later.

This statement is screams scum. I'll get to that in a moment. Before that, I'm going to square away Jim's Ace-in-the-hole IC ethos defense.

Jim, an IC has absolutely no business intentionally pissing off beginners ever. The only thing it serves to accomplish is making a player even less responsive to your advice, which, since you're actually trying to teach us newbies how to hunt effectively, doesn't help teach the player AT ALL.

Now for the scumminess. If you were trying to make bread post prematurely this would be a contradiction of one of the pieces of evidence you used here. In this post, you said that his reactionary behavior was scummy. BUT, with the post I just quoted, you admitted to actually trying to intentionally provoke breadbocks beforehand. This means that the whole operation you have going here is a trap to get an emotional player framed by intentionally provoking him to respond in a reactive way, and then using it as evidence against him. That is scummy. In fact, that is the scummiest thing I've ever heard of.

Jim, there is a difference between pissing someone off to see if they drop scumtells and pissing someone off in order to engineer your own. Vote Jim Groovester.

You agree with my (half written) idea, and say it better than I would be able to.

Vote: Jim Groovester

[Heliman]

:|
...
Cmon TKoE we need more substance than that! at least give us an ordered list of who you think is the most scummiest and why!

[Jim Groovester]

Jim, an IC has absolutely no business intentionally pissing off beginners ever. The only thing it serves to accomplish is making a player even less responsive to your advice, which, since you're actually trying to teach us newbies how to hunt effectively, doesn't help teach the player AT ALL.

I don't have to be gentle to teach you. You're a bright group; you can handle a little abuse. Better get used to it, because what I'm doing is pretty tame.

Now for the scumminess. If you were trying to make bread post prematurely this would be a contradiction of one of the pieces of evidence you used here. In this post, you said that his reactionary behavior was scummy. BUT, with the post I just quoted, you admitted to actually trying to intentionally provoke breadbocks beforehand. This means that the whole operation you have going here is a trap to get an emotional player framed by intentionally provoking him to respond in a reactive way, and then using it as evidence against him. That is scummy. In fact, that is the scummiest thing I've ever heard of.

Jim, there is a difference between pissing someone off to see if they drop scumtells and pissing someone off in order to engineer your own. Vote Jim Groovester.

Ha ha, no.

Testing reactions is a perfectly legitimate way to scum hunt. Although that's not explicitly what I was doing. I just wanted him to hurry up and fucking do something. As my patience wears thin I get more and more abrasive and my patience was pretty worn down after waiting three days for his mute to expire, and even the runaround he was giving me before that point. But the reaction I got to it was pretty damn telling.

You don't have a problem with me trying to get him to post sooner than he would have liked, do you? I'd rather put him on the spot and see what he has to say because that's going to be a much more honest reaction than waiting for him to prepare and make shit up.

How about this: Ignore what I've done, and tell me what you think of breadbocks. Because you seem to be saying that he's some sort of panicky noob, and let me tell you, he doesn't meet the criteria. Panicky noobs panic, and if he's careful enough to ditch the game as soon as the heat turns up on him (he's avoiding this game despite posting elsewhere on the forum) then his fragile emotional state is not something I have to worry about.

You agree with my (half written) idea, and say it better than I would be able to.

Vote: Jim Groovester

Spell it out, TKoE. You don't get to ride on Heliman's arguments, you lazy bandwagoner.

And you called yourself experienced. I've never been more unimpressed in my life.

[breadbocks]

I've been assembling a post, but ran out of time this period of awakeness.

So here's the part actually finished.

If you want names, I'd say Jim, and Webadict, because it makes us depend on them more, and thus subconsciously more trusting.

Are... you being serious?

You are suspicious of us because we're good players?

Hahahaha. Nice attitude. It also means you've got no information and are basically pulling reasons from your nether regions. It's like, "Who can I lynch with the most bogus reason?"

In fact, you're just attacking anyone that points at you.

So, really, you've got about one post to make a legitimate case.

No. Just no. I'm saying we (the non-ICs) should keep on edge, and make sure we (the non-ICs) don't assume you (The ICs) are townies because you are helping. At least for you.

Jim, I wouldn't touch with a 39 and 1/2 foot pole.

Now, here are some facts that couldn't possibly be twisted without falsifying them.

• Since the beginning of day one, inclusive of that post and this post, there have been 234 posts.
• Of those 234 posts, 15 were the mod/Ottofar/IronyOwl (WTF, mate?), leaving 219 of the player's posts.

The breakdown of the remaining 219 is as follows:

• Heliman: 39
• Supercharazard/Webadict:33
• Bdthmag/OrangeBottle: 11
• Me:30
• CrownofFire: 22
• The King of Eggs: 1
• major_sephiroth: 19 (Dead)
• Jim Groovester: 41
• Toaster: 15 (Dead)

As this breakdown shows, the most lurky has been TKoE, closely followed by Bdthmag/OrangeBottle, (Didn't he (OB) officially replace Bd halfway into D1? If so, why was he (OB) silent for the entire day) then you get the two dead people, Crown, me, Super/Web, Heliman, and finally Jim.

NEXT TIME: We put this breakdown to use.

[Heliman]

Jim, an IC has absolutely no business intentionally pissing off beginners ever. The only thing it serves to accomplish is making a player even less responsive to your advice, which, since you're actually trying to teach us newbies how to hunt effectively, doesn't help teach the player AT ALL.

I don't have to be gentle to teach you. You're a bright group; you can handle a little abuse. Better get used to it, because what I'm doing is pretty tame.

Well isn't that just be fine and dandy. It all makes sense now, if it weren't for the fact that you weren't doing any real teaching by provoking breadbocks.

Testing reactions is a perfectly legitimate way to scum hunt. Although that's not explicitly what I was doing. I just wanted him to hurry up and fucking do something. As my patience wears thin I get more and more abrasive and my patience was pretty worn down after waiting three days for his mute to expire, and even the runaround he was giving me before that point.

Patience is key in this game. You know this. You know that he'd eventually make a post either making a proper argument or dismissing his argument altogether, and if he stopped posting you could just as easily call for him to be lynched for lurking like scum. For some reason though, you were impatient. Why is that Jim? If you're worried about others thinking that you're not doing enough scum hunting then you are scum.

But the reaction I got to it was pretty damn telling.

I don't care. I'm not here to defend breadbocks, his indecision, or his aggressive tendencies.

You don't have a problem with me trying to get him to post sooner than he would have liked, do you? I'd rather put him on the spot and see what he has to say because that's going to be a much more honest reaction than waiting for him to prepare and make shit up.

Yeah I do have a problem with this Jim, because this is different than pressing an accusation. I have recently realized that the last fucking thing in the world a townie should do is press another player to submit an offensive argument hastily. Arguments must be made with the intent to persuade the other townies who read it. Always. Town is not going to listen to an argument that is half-assed, and done without proper deliberation. Trying to push breadbocks into delivering an argument isn't going to make him more honest, it's only going to make him look more unbelievable. Which is exactly what you want.

How about this: Ignore what I've done,

What? No. In fact, Hell no. There is no way in hell I'm going to ignore anything in this thread, it's bad for scumhunting.

and tell me what you think of breadbocks. Because you seem to be saying that he's some sort of panicky noob, and let me tell you, he doesn't meet the criteria. Panicky noobs panic, and if he's careful enough to ditch the game as soon as the heat turns up on him (he's avoiding this game despite posting elsewhere on the forum) then his fragile emotional state is not something I have to worry about.

Wrong adjective. Not panicky, aggressive. Easily riled and dogged in his pursuit, and too prideful to give up the when he has no leg to stand on. It's amiable, but not good scum hunting. It's also not a red herring I'm going to be distracted from.