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Author Topic: Dwarven Hive .4 - second major release. Still beta.  (Read 8443 times)

Talanic

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Dwarven Hive .4 - second major release. Still beta.
« on: May 02, 2011, 02:20:41 pm »

To install the basic version that I've just completed, replace your creature_standard with this:  http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4340


First, thanks to those who contributed to the brainstorming, and especially to TomiTapio and Deon for their assistance.  I'dve never gotten a few things nailed down without their help. 

I'd love comments, suggestions and any help you might be able to offer, as I kinda don't think I'm really good  at this.

I recently picked up Dwarf Fortress Advanced, Genesis, and Fort Defense, and over the past couple weeks I mashed 'em together for maximum Fun.  The dwarven Castes of the first two mods were particularly interesting to me, and I wound up thinking of creating my own mod.

(For maximum Fun, imagine the following in two different mods - one for playing as in DF, and one as a hostile civ).

The object of this mod is as follows:

1.  To create a dwarven society that has sharply divided castes, even more extreme than the ones in Genesis and DFA, as if millions of years of dwarvolution had produced workers for very specific jobs.  Alternatively, a magical accident created a swarmlike 'hive' of dwarves.  The first version if this is done.

2.  To extrapolate on this idea with suitable items and workshops.  Some of which I will borrow from other mods, with permission / credit given to the makers - after all, why make a new display case?  I might edit it to use crystal glass, but the real work was already done by its original maker.  This stage has not been touched yet.

3.  To follow through with enemies bad enough to have caused significant selective pressure on the dwarves.  This stage has also not been begun.

Now, I have to confess, I don't consider myself to be that much of a modder, and my computer is a piece o' crap (80 dwarves max, 2x2 embark, no weather or temperature if I want over 100 fps).  I hope to be able to get this done, but I'd appreciate any help people might be willing to provide. 


Most of the castes have a speed rating assigned to them, based off the statement that a normal dwarf's speed is 900. 

The castes as they currently are:

Drone - [speed:50], [nothought], very small size and no skill learning rate except for brewing.  They're the basic worker and hauler, good only for jobs that are merely instinct to the species.  They have, however, developed a blazing speed.  Most common caste.

Rock - [speed:2000], body material is gypsum, no nerves, no ranged weapon skill.  They're less than half as fast as regular dwarves but physically very tough.  They'd be excellent miners except for their speed; as it is, they learn stonecrafting, masonry and engraving quickly, producing high-quality results at a plodding rate.  Fearless, and favoring blunt weaponry.

Flesh - [speed:400] Soft-bodied but quick dwarves with a bent towards duty, these dwarves are extremely strange.  Their touch inflicts a syndrome that causes numbness - which rarely sees use in battle, as the caste is physically frail and doesn't learn combat skills.  However, considering their ability, they make excellent doctors.  In addition to having innate medical knowledge, they make good butchers, tanners, leatherworkers and bone crafters. 

Wood - [speed:1200] Dwarves who are excellent with anything related to plants (or similar).  They don't bleed, get tired, or eat, deriving nutrients from the stone beneath their feet and the booze they liberally sprinkle into their prodigious beards.  Skilled with axes, but like most Hive castes, not so much with armor or shield use; also good at carpentry, clothesmaking, and any and all plant-based crafts and farming.  (If I could make them only eat elves, I would...)

Magma - [speed:2000] These dwarves are immune to heat and do not breathe.  They are excellent at working on metals, but like the Rock caste, are slow.  Their blood causes a syndrome that inflicts massive blistering on the target.  (I'd make it be very hot, but I can't play with temperature on if I want more than 1 fps.  Also, the syndrome is not in yet.).

Blood - Four-armed monstrosities, the Blood caste is ridiculously good at mining and fighting.  They're not good for much else, though, and are very short-tempered.  (No patience, no empathy - we'll see how that works out.)

Stinger - Stinger dwarves are an advanced form of drone, slower and more like a normal dwarf.  They're better in the military but still tend to be defenseless.

Soil - A rare caste that is nearly required in the dwarven hive, the Earth caste is nearly the only one that is free-thinking enough to be social with other races.  Because of this, the rest of the hive is beneath this caste - hence the name of soil.  In addition to social skills, the soil caste is better at glassmaking, pottery, and some forms of farming.

Beast - [speed:600] Strong, fast, and dang close to feral, the Beast caste specializes in getting close to enemies and tearing them to shreds with sharp weaponry.  They're also hunters, trackers, and butchers.  They can learn to wear armor, but prefer not to, leading to a frequently short lifespan in battle.

Royal - Clearly the most versatile caste, they're able to perform any job.  To us, however, they're normal, vanilla dwarves.  Very rare.

I know that syndromes can't give positive attributes (alas) so as a workaround I intend to create a specialized form of metal, armor or weapon that requires five jugs of Royal Jelly and a barrel of blood, along with steel, gold, and platinum, to create.  It might also be possible to harvest venom from something in order to forge a metal that inflicts syndromes on an opponent.

Also, if possible, I want to try creating a workshop that takes in metal bars and produces metal wire/thread which can be woven and used to make clothing. 

Is there a way to make sure that nobody shows up to trade, especially not the Dwarven Caravan?  I'd like the flavor of the mod to be that you've got a single hive of dwarves and the rest of the species is out to kill you.

More to come, if people are interested.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 12:45:10 pm by Talanic »
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Necro910

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Re: Dwarven Hive .001 - Concept, ideas.
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2011, 02:40:22 pm »

It's OK, but this isn't a great mod. You would lack anyone who can really perform a certain job, when you start. You might end up starting with 7 of a class you don't need.

Also, the drone is so fast, they'd just maul everything that comes near. Hundreds of hits if not thousands before an enemy can attack.

Girlinhat

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Re: Dwarven Hive .001 - Concept, ideas.
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2011, 02:56:24 pm »

Tiny dwarven fists of raeg.  Even without an attack allowed, they can "push".

Talanic

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Re: Dwarven Hive .001 - Concept, ideas.
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2011, 03:00:43 pm »

I've played around with [speed:1] dwarves, and they're not unstoppable - a fully equipped and trained military can still take casualties when outnumbered or outmatched, even at [speed:1], largely because they tire out faster too.  I intend to counterbalance their speed by giving them very low size, no skill gain ability in any kind of combat, and next to no strength (and possibly endurance).  If they wind up being too powerful even then, I'll adjust their speed.  It'll definitely be something to keep in mind.

And I can declare them to have a paltry melee attack...that should help.

Also, although you may start without someone who can *learn* a job at the start, any dwarf can *do* the job.  They'll be stuck at dabbling.  To combat the problem, we could add a skill penalty to members of the hive outside their specialty, rather than a skill lockout.
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Scaraban

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Re: Dwarven Hive .001 - Concept, ideas.
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2011, 06:18:30 pm »

>.>
<.<
Watching...
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Ult1mara

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Re: Dwarven Hive .001 - Concept, ideas.
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2011, 06:41:31 pm »

DUDE looking forward to this mod . Please let me be the first person to LP/First look it?

I know how active u were in the DFA thread and I know u helped Kipi out a lot. So I can see this mod being very well made, if u can make it.

So far I have read the first few lines and the IMMENSE dwarven Caste system really makes me giggity ^_^ I love castes and believe they should be introduced into all mods :P heehee
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Talanic

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Re: Dwarven Hive .001 - Concept, ideas.
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2011, 09:35:22 pm »

Just got back from work.  Tomorrow's my day off and I'll put in some time to see what I can do.  One of the first things I'll address is the Drone speed settings.

More design concept:

Skill-based weapons.  All skill-based weapons are inferior to actual, military weapons, but represent the fact that dwarves have been fighting for their existence for millennia, and have found a way to fight with just about anything at hand - similar to the way that a mining pick uses mining skill to fight.  This is probably going to be really annoying to make, and is probably biting off more than I can chew.

Skill weapons would include:  Carpenter's Mallet, Engraver's Pick, Mason's Rock Maul, Battle Gizmo (Mechanic), War Scalpel (Surgeon), Slapstick (Comedian).  Et cetera. 
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Necro910

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Re: Dwarven Hive .001 - Concept, ideas.
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2011, 10:00:30 pm »

Skill weapons would include:  Carpenter's Mallet, Engraver's Pick, Mason's Rock Maul, Battle Gizmo (Mechanic), War Scalpel (Surgeon), Slapstick (Comedian).  Et cetera.
How can being a comedian possibly help you beat people to death with a stick?  ???

Talanic

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Re: Dwarven Hive .001 - Concept, ideas.
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2011, 10:10:25 pm »

That one was tossed in as a joke...although, my alternate response is, "Have you ever heard of the Three Stooges?"

By the way, I just tested, three drones versus a goblin.  Goblin had no weapons, no armor, no skill; it still won. 

One test, of course, does not make balance.  On to do more.

Edit:  I've done a few tests.  Even with full iron gear, 10 drones versus 10 goblins (also equipped with same gear and starting without skills) resulted in the deaths of all drones, with five to seven goblins surviving (and with the goblins gaining several levels in most fighting skills).  That's acceptable to me, but if I can manage an even worse survival rate, I'll see what I can do.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 11:50:44 pm by Talanic »
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Naryar

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Re: Dwarven Hive .001 - Concept, ideas.
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2011, 12:28:32 am »

Skill weapons would include:  Carpenter's Mallet, Engraver's Pick, Mason's Rock Maul, Battle Gizmo (Mechanic), War Scalpel (Surgeon), Slapstick (Comedian).  Et cetera.
How can being a comedian possibly help you beat people to death with a stick?  ???
Well, a comedian is funny, beating people with a stick is funny, so a comedian beats people with a stick.

Talanic

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Re: Dwarven Hive .001 - Concept, ideas.
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2011, 09:09:21 pm »

I did manage to work on it today, and the framework for the castes is in place.  I'm pretty sure I got rock dwarves to be made out of stone (Quartzite - picked mostly at random, for now) and wood dwarves to be made out of wood.  Blood dwarves, with their four arms, are still superior fighters, which is good because that's their purpose.  I haven't tweaked individual caste attributes except to raise the lower bound, making the average higher.  The rest of the castes don't mean that much yet (no skill changes), but the progress I've made is heartening.

Expect an actual playable release tomorrow.  If you like, you can see the raw file for the dwarves behind the spoiler - but be warned, it's not that pretty and could probably have been done better by nearly anyone.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Ult1mara

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Re: Dwarven Hive .001 - Concept, ideas.
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2011, 09:58:38 pm »

LET ME LP IT!!!! lol

Could I do an LP on the mod Talanic?
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Talanic

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Re: Dwarven Hive .001 - Concept, ideas.
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2011, 10:51:10 pm »

Of course!
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TomiTapio

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Re: Dwarven Hive .001 - Concept, ideas.
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2011, 03:36:21 am »

Sounds like a cool idea. Probably way too much micromanagement once you hit 40-120 citizens. I'd rename every dorf to their caste so I could make sense of it in Therapist.
How about a no-arms caste, talkative type.

Quote
Can I make a caste of dwarves into pure carnivores with the [Carnivore] tag?  Do they still eat if I try to do this?

Can noble positions be used to alter a creature, e.g. adding in skill learning rates?  I want to make dorfs that require great rooms, and when assigned noble positions, learn to be great fighters.  I don't know if this is possible.
Carnivore, I guess that's a creature-level tag. Probably changes the whole DWARF creature.
Noble pos can not change much.

For Drone, I recommend speed 400 (still ridiculously fast, 2.25x speed of average wildlife) and combat skill learning rates of 3% (not 100%). Or maybe you try speed 100. I think anything faster than 300 (3x speed) is game-breaking. You gonna have speed:10 (90x speed) opponents too?

Skill weapons would include:  Carpenter's Mallet, Engraver's Pick, Mason's Rock Maul, Battle Gizmo (Mechanic), War Scalpel (Surgeon), Slapstick (Comedian).  Et cetera.
How can being a comedian possibly help you beat people to death with a stick?  ???
Good timing, understanding of rhythm and predictability.

Here is current Genesis dorf tunings, you can copy-paste the combat rates to your warrior caste.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 03:45:23 am by TomiTapio »
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==OldGenesis mod== by Deon & TomiTapio. Five wood classes, four leather classes. Nine enemy civs. So much fine-tuning.
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Deon

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Re: Dwarven Hive .001 - Concept, ideas.
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2011, 03:44:00 am »

Sounds like a cool idea. Probably way too much micromanagement once you hit 40-120 citizens. I'd rename every dorf to their caste so I could make sense of it in Therapist.
How about a no-arms caste, talkative type.
That's something we should probaby do too :).

No-arms will spam you with "cannot *** too injured", also they won't wash and change clothes.
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