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[Taricus]

No information, no motive yet. I say we attempt a stalemate for the lynch this round, call suspicions rather than voting.

[Jim Groovester]

Taricus, there's been lots of good advice thrown at you. But you aren't listening to it.

Why aren't you listening?

Instead of offering excuses for why you're not doing stuff, you should, oh, I don't know, go out and try the stuff people are telling you to do.

Being meek and lacking confidence in your play is a quick way to lynchtown. It's a pretty cool place, lots of people to hang around with.

So go be bold already.

Thank you, I'll unvote Toaster. But before I go on, I'd like to ask you and Jim Groovester the same question, seeing as you're both experienced on playing Mafia on these forums. Do you prefer playing town, or scum? Also, if town, would you prefer to have a power role or be vanilla? As scum?

I don't really have a preference. In games where there's a possibility for interesting third party roles, I hope I end up as one of them. But in a game with just town and scum, I don't really worry too much about what I'll end up as.

As for roles, they're nice to have but I generally feel like I'm limited in using them since I'm pretty high up on the list of night targets. And I can do plenty of damage with or without them, so I don't really worry too much about getting them. But as scum, yes, I'd want a power role. A more powerful scum team is a more dangerous scum team.

Also consider that if all townies are extremely open, then if the scum clam up, it's obvious who's scum. This forces the scum to open up and provide more information for us to analyze.

In summary: if you're a townie, you want to share information. If you're scum, you want to share information so that you aren't obviously scummy.

I'll use this to point out that this is excellent advice for everybody. As a member of the town, you want to be as open and transparent as possible. (Barring information about your role, of course.)

You want everybody to get a good read on you, and ideally, you want that read to be town. So answer questions as quickly and openly and helpfully as you can.

[Vector]

No information, no motive yet. I say we attempt a stalemate for the lynch this round, call suspicions rather than voting.

In general that just gives the scum a free N1 kill.  You can't read into the nightkill unless you're quite sharp, and even then you need a lot of other data.

To date, there's only one time I remember an NK leading to the scum.

[Taricus]

Possibly, though they get a kill reguardless if we get one of them this day or not, and whoever got killed at that night may either been onto something or completely off.

[Think0028]

Possibly, though they get a kill reguardless if we get one of them this day or not, and whoever got killed at that night may either been onto something or completely off.

... Buh? I really can't parse what you're saying here. So you're saying that if we do nothing, we get no information? Then clearly we should do something, no?

[Vector]

Possibly, though they get a kill reguardless if we get one of them this day or not, and whoever got killed at that night may either been onto something or completely off.

All right, let me put it this way:

It's a bad idea.  We tried it, it sucked, we have run through many, many newbies thinking it was a good idea and it has always been a bad idea.

So get to it.

[Taricus]

Well then, I've nothing.

[breadbocks]

Spoilspec me on this one, if ya don't mind.

[Powder Miner]

Anzki, If I were scum, I wouldn't know my partner until I got my PM. The roles are randomly assigned, and even if they weren't I'd have no way of knowing who the host would pick. However, if I could CHOOSE a partner, which is what I assume you meant, I would pick one of the ICs, as their experience would help me to win the game.

[Toaster]

Well then, I've nothing.

Then get something.  The simplest way to do this is to ask questions and gauge people's responses.  Remember, how the question is answered is as important as the answer itself.

Have you read any prior games?  This game was played with the same role set (though in that one each role was guaranteed instead of 50/50 like this one) with several of the best players on this board.  See how the first day of that game went for advice on how to start this day.

[Okami No Rei]

There is no detail to it, plain and simple. You want needless elaboration and detail in which I may possibly be able to deceive you with a wall of text, go get someone else. I give it as simply as I can.

I think this is the third time you've made it clear that you know what we expect of you, yet you continue to fail to deliver.

Not to mention I do forget things...

No excuse for that. It's all there for you to read.

Pressure applied to someone doesn't equal the fact that you'll get much out of them. Not to mention that a scum would be more subtle than me.

No information, no motive yet. I say we attempt a stalemate for the lynch this round, call suspicions rather than voting.

I don't know what to think.

Well then, I've nothing.

And I've had it with you.

Unvote

Speaking of your motives, why the hell are you being so hard on Taricus? You're putting a lot of pressure on him. I don't think it's because you actually think he's scum. I think it's because you want to make a good show of scumhunting.

You know what scumhunting for appearances' sake is? Scummy.

You're right.  I don't think he's scum.  I don't think he's not scum, either.  At this point I've been more interested in seeing the reactions to my pressing him.  Specifically, I've been using him as bait while trawling for bandwagoning scum.  That plan's over now I've said it, which is why I waited until tonight rather than last night to post again (needing to sleep and go to work played a role in the decision as well).  Now I've got a veritable mountain of reactions to sift through.

Okami no Rei. While I understand that Taricus is throwing a very large scumtell of active lurking and lacks meat to his attacks, I feel like he's reacting more like a inexperienced town than a bandwagoning scum. Consider that he folded almost instantly when you started pushing him and hasn't fought back. I believe as a scum he would be more concerned with his appearances, especially as a beginner on the first day. Do you think that Taricus is scum, or are you pressuring him to improve his game?

I was directing the pressure to try and improve his game, but the primary concern is to create a sufficient amount of chaos that opportunistic, inexperienced scum scramble out of the woodwork at the the smell of an easy lynch.

And Taricus, I wonder if your answers are just inexperience, which most of us here posses, or is there something else behind it...

This response reeks of scumminess.  You're encouraging the bandwagon without actually hopping on, but why?  What 'something more' do you suspect?

anzki4 - I think you're covering for/indirectly supporting your partner, which would make Powder Miner or Supercharazad your counterpart.

Unvote Think0028, Taricus Well, gee. You fail to answer his questions, and when he continues to press, you OMGUS him. Any reason for that?

Since Powder Miner was only the second vote and actually brought an original accusation to the table...

Supercharizard - Hiding something?

unvote

So, as a matter of fact, I'm not.

Tell me, why the vauge RV? What possible outcome would that answer have generated other than a "no"?

Tacricus, Why the vauge RV? Also, who would prefer as your scumpartner?

Ah, many thanks Anzki.

If you know what I meant now, then why not answer?


Not answering questions, that'd be a scumtell you know.

Supercharazad - You're rehashing my arguments without providing original material, you were the third vote on the bandwagon, and judging by your post history, you've been around long enough to know better.  Explain yourself.

Also,

Supercharazad - Stacking votes already?  Interesting.  In your opinion, how many votes constitutes a bandwagon in nine player RVS?

2, unless it's RVS or the second person has their own argument.

Do I really need to add 'and why?'?  How many in RVS?  Not in general.

Okami:  Clearly you've played before.  Do you prefer playing town or scum?  Why?

Scum, of course!  Much more interesting, though substantially more difficult.  I enjoy the meta-challenge of keeping my scum and town behaviour consistent, without deliberately playing town poorly to keep my scumgame easy.

Okami, I have not read any games with Heliman in them unfortunately.

Darn.  Looks like I'll have go find and read it/them myself.

@ONR: Do I know you from somewhere?

More appropriately, where have you played before?

Hmm... intentional evading of my questions, and a laughing man avatar... no questions about mafia, and an easy alighnment with the ICs... an aggressive, familiar playing style.

I'll resume questioning post-game, because I think it's a distraction right now.  However, ONR, I've got my eye on you.

Intentional?  I haven't even posted since you asked the first one...

Spoiler: TL;DR (click to show/hide)

Didn't think you'd get off that easy now, did you?

[Vector]

Usually, when one finds someone one suspects of trolling and says "You're a troll," they ignore it if they are a troll, and refute it if they are not.  Similar for other such matters.  In this instance I fucked up, and yet received all the information I needed.

So you have to keep pressing, upon which point one gains information as to character.  A response, to shake the pursuer off, but nothing else.  No response.  No interest in being helpful to the questioner whatsoever.

To which I say, of course:

At least I know you aren't Zathras/Book.


And also: This is how you scumhunt, bitches.  If I were actually in this game and asking questions about scumminess instead of forum-knowledge, I'd be lynching right now on two posts of information.  So pay attention.

[Think0028]

Okami no Rei. While I understand that Taricus is throwing a very large scumtell of active lurking and lacks meat to his attacks, I feel like he's reacting more like a inexperienced town than a bandwagoning scum. Consider that he folded almost instantly when you started pushing him and hasn't fought back. I believe as a scum he would be more concerned with his appearances, especially as a beginner on the first day. Do you think that Taricus is scum, or are you pressuring him to improve his game?

I was directing the pressure to try and improve his game, but the primary concern is to create a sufficient amount of chaos that opportunistic, inexperienced scum scramble out of the woodwork at the the smell of an easy lynch.

Hmm. You'd be way more suspicious to me if this wasn't a Beginner's Mafia, but Taricus's game needs such obvious help that this seems highly plausible. I would've done the same if you didn't. Unvote.

With everyone but anzki and Heliman having made enough posts I can sink into, I'd like to ask them some questions. Heliman a question. Who do you have strong reads on? What is your opinion on Taricus and the people voting on him? anzki4, what convinces you that Taricus is scum and not a bad player?

Usually, when one finds someone one suspects of trolling and says "You're a troll," they ignore it if they are a troll, and refute it if they are not.  Similar for other such matters.  In this instance I fucked up, and yet received all the information I needed.

So you have to keep pressing, upon which point one gains information as to character.  A response, to shake the pursuer off, but nothing else.  No response.  No interest in being helpful to the questioner whatsoever.

To which I say, of course:

At least I know you aren't Zathras/Book.

Damn it all that was my guess. But they sound so alike...

[Vector]

Okami no Rei isn't from the States.

[Powder Miner]

Well, wow. I didn't even notice super. But I'm still demanding my answer from Taricus. Otherwise, I really don't know what to say since Okami's post really blew my mind. I mean wow, Walls of Text are quite impressive when you're actually in the game. I actually don't hav anthing to say so this is kind of a meaningless vote. Oh well, on to some more Random Questioning.

Okami no Rei, who would you be most afraid of if they were scum?