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[Jim Groovester]

Alright.

But why would Okami No Rei be trying to defend Taricus when at the beginning of the game, he was pressing him?

I don't think there's as much connection between the two as you think there is.

[Supercharazad]

Alright.

But why would Okami No Rei be trying to defend Taricus when at the beginning of the game, he was pressing him?

I don't think there's as much connection between the two as you think there is.

What would stop scum from pressing eachother? It could have been staged pressing, but I'd rather stay out of an ocean of Wine.

[anzki4]

So you think he's pretending newbiness?  Show us the evidence.  Just a hunch?  Why aren't you interrogating him yourself?  You can't just say "I think he's scum" and not be providing reasons or actively searching for them.  You're not even voting for him (or anyone else at the moment, for that matter, what's up with that?).

Yes, you could call that just a hunch. And about not voting Taricus, like I already said, my suspicion is not strong enough. And about the not voting anyone part; I had to hurry to school when I last made a post, so I didn't have time to RV anyone and make a question.

So here goes; Toaster. If you could decide who to lynch today, and had to lynch someone, who would go?

[Toaster]

Okami:

Okami no Rei, who would you be most afraid of if they were scum?

Jim - Because then there'd be two scum running around with flawless towngames.

So who's the other scum with a flawless towngame?

I think this is the third time you've made it clear that you know what we expect of you, yet you continue to fail to deliver.

And there you go with that 'we' business again.

I thought I was clear. Stop that.

You were crystal clear.  That was a 'we' in the sense of those of us interrogating him.

It's still light buddying- you putting up an "Us vs Them" situation.

Toaster - You're not voting for anyone, either.   In fact, you've been remarkably passive thus far.  What do you think of Supercharazad?

Super?  After his RV, he tunneled Taricus for a while for being so uncooperative before moving on.  His play is reasonable, but I'd like to see him spread his questioning a bit broader.

What do you think of the four votes on you?  What is the likelihood that at least one is scum?  Think both scum are in on it?


Super:  If Taricus flipped town either via lynch or NK before D2, what would that do to your opinion of Okami?


Think:  After reading your waffling on voting Okami several times and trying to decide if it was honest indecision or not, I have to conclude it isn't.  Why?  Your interim actions.

With everyone but anzki and Heliman having made enough posts I can sink into, I'd like to ask them some questions. Heliman a question. Who do you have strong reads on? What is your opinion on Taricus and the people voting on him? anzki4, what convinces you that Taricus is scum and not a bad player?

This is perfectly fine.  You back off a suspicion after a satisfactory response and you go on to get two quiet people to talk.

With Heliman posting and answering my question, I'm going to unvote and put my vote on Okami. Now that I think more about your actions and your responses, I see you as pushing for a bandwagon you didn't want to physically participate in that didn't materialize. Now that that's finished, I think you're trying to find someone to pin the blame on.

Then you go back after you get what you wanted.  Fine.

Except for one thing- anzki never answered you.  You didn't actually get what you said you wanted.  You asked a question with no intent to follow up on it.  The only conclusion here is you're scum hopping back on the wagon.  The fact that you revoted after someone else voted Okami stinks too.


Anzki:

So here goes; Toaster. If you could decide who to lynch today, and had to lynch someone, who would go?

Think for the reasons above. 

How about you?  It's getting a bit late in the day for RV questions.  Who do you suspect and why?


Powder Miner:  Who are your top two suspects and why?

[Think0028]

Think:  After reading your waffling on voting Okami several times and trying to decide if it was honest indecision or not, I have to conclude it isn't.  Why?  Your interim actions.

With everyone but anzki and Heliman having made enough posts I can sink into, I'd like to ask them some questions. Heliman a question. Who do you have strong reads on? What is your opinion on Taricus and the people voting on him? anzki4, what convinces you that Taricus is scum and not a bad player?

This is perfectly fine.  You back off a suspicion after a satisfactory response and you go on to get two quiet people to talk.

With Heliman posting and answering my question, I'm going to unvote and put my vote on Okami. Now that I think more about your actions and your responses, I see you as pushing for a bandwagon you didn't want to physically participate in that didn't materialize. Now that that's finished, I think you're trying to find someone to pin the blame on.

Then you go back after you get what you wanted.  Fine.

Except for one thing- anzki never answered you.  You didn't actually get what you said you wanted.  You asked a question with no intent to follow up on it.  The only conclusion here is you're scum hopping back on the wagon.  The fact that you revoted after someone else voted Okami stinks too.

I never waited for anzki to respond because my suspicions on anzki were not particularly strong, and after Jim and Heliman's posts I became more concerned with figuring out Okami than waiting for a post from someone I only wanted an answer from because he hasn't been posting much. Like I said about Heliman in the post above, I was just stalling for time while I thought about Okami. The revote looks scummy, but it comes from an honest change of mind.

[Think0028]

Besides, isn't it possible to vote for someone while waiting on questions for someone else? You're doing the same right now with me and anzki4 as well.

[Supercharazad]

Super:  If Taricus flipped town either via lynch or NK before D2, what would that do to your opinion of Okami?

It would lessen my suspicion of him, but I'd still keep a eye on him.

Jim Groovester: Who are your two top scumpicks, and why?

[Toaster]

Think:

Besides, isn't it possible to vote for someone while waiting on questions for someone else? You're doing the same right now with me and anzki4 as well.

You almost had me convinced until you tried to deflect back on to me.

Let's look at your wording.

With everyone but anzki and Heliman having made enough posts I can sink into, I'd like to ask them some questions. Heliman a question. Who do you have strong reads on? What is your opinion on Taricus and the people voting on him? anzki4, what convinces you that Taricus is scum and not a bad player?

You're grouping them together here.  You want content from both of them.

With Heliman posting and answering my question, I'm going to unvote and put my vote on Okami. Now that I think more about your actions and your responses, I see you as pushing for a bandwagon you didn't want to physically participate in that didn't materialize. Now that that's finished, I think you're trying to find someone to pin the blame on.

And the connection is gone.  Anzki hasn't posted between these two posts, yet you lose interest in his response.

This is entirely different from me going after you and Anzki.  I am attacking you and trying to get more content out of him in an entirely separate thread.  You're just trying to make yourself look better via making me look bad.

[Think0028]

With everyone but anzki and Heliman having made enough posts I can sink into, I'd like to ask them some questions. Heliman a question. Who do you have strong reads on? What is your opinion on Taricus and the people voting on him? anzki4, what convinces you that Taricus is scum and not a bad player?

You're grouping them together here.  You want content from both of them.

With Heliman posting and answering my question, I'm going to unvote and put my vote on Okami. Now that I think more about your actions and your responses, I see you as pushing for a bandwagon you didn't want to physically participate in that didn't materialize. Now that that's finished, I think you're trying to find someone to pin the blame on.

And the connection is gone.  Anzki hasn't posted between these two posts, yet you lose interest in his response.

This is entirely different from me going after you and Anzki.  I am attacking you and trying to get more content out of him in an entirely separate thread.  You're just trying to make yourself look better via making me look bad.

I lose interest in his post because I lost interest in his post. If you'll look back to my post to Groovester:

And then you reverse yourself again. Not because you really pressured him or anything but because I pointed it out to you. Why, you even call what Okami No Rei did a stupid plan, just like I did. Just after I did.

You look like you're trying to be agreeable more than you are trying to find scum, because you caved in and changed your opinion immediately after I asked you about it.

That's very suspect of you.

I am aware it's very suspect, but this is the pattern I went through:

1) Made post in response to Okami, full of doubt.
2) Ruminated on doubt.
3) Saw your post, which pressed my doubts.
4) Decided to go with my doubts.

I swear up and down I thought the plan was bad beforehand, but I have no way of proving that, unfortunately, as I left that out of my posts intentionally, to avoid showing my indecision. Once you pressed it, I decided that the voice in my head shouting "don't trust Okami" is louder than the one shouting "stick with what you said." The vote on Heliman was mostly me stalling for time by waiting for some response from him so I didn't have to keep thinking about Okami. Heliman also suspecting Okami suggested to me that what I saw wasn't something I made up in my head.

This applies equally to me suspecting anzki4. anzki4 was never a vote, I was bugging him to post more than anything else:

With everyone but anzki and Heliman having made enough posts I can sink into, I'd like to ask them some questions. Heliman a question. Who do you have strong reads on? What is your opinion on Taricus and the people voting on him? anzki4, what convinces you that Taricus is scum and not a bad player?

I'm not even slightly concerned with making you look bad at the moment, I'm just trying to make my case and explain my actions. My follow-up post was not intended to be "oh yeah well you did that too" but more "isn't this a legitimate thing that can be done? Can't we both be in the right?".

[anzki4]

How about you?  It's getting a bit late in the day for RV questions.  Who do you suspect and why?

Unvote Toaster.

There are IMO couple more suspicious persons here than the rest. First we have Okami for the reasons already mentioned by others. Secondly there is Taricus, for reasons I have already posted. Thirdly and fourthly there are Heliman and Think0028 for perhaps too eager lynchstacking...

Taricus, who would you at this moment to be the two scums?

[Taricus]

Anzki4: Can you reword your question, I don't understand it right now.

[anzki4]

Anzki4: Can you reword your question, I don't understand it right now.

Yeah. Sorry about that.
Who would you, at this moment, think to be the two scums?
Better? 

[Taricus]

Yes, much.

First would be Okami No Rei due to the fact the playstyle seems a bit too townie.

Second would be Supercharazad due to his relentlessness.

[Supercharazad]

Second would be Supercharazad due to his relentlessness.

We play mafia aggressivly here. Deal with it.

[Toaster]

Anzki:

There are IMO couple more suspicious persons here than the rest. First we have Okami for the reasons already mentioned by others. Secondly there is Taricus, for reasons I have already posted. Thirdly and fourthly there are Heliman and Think0028 for perhaps too eager lynchstacking...

Taricus, who would you at this moment to be the two scums?

Fair enough, but one question:  Why are you voting your second suspect instead of your first?


Taricus:

Yes, much.

First would be Okami No Rei due to the fact the playstyle seems a bit too townie.

Second would be Supercharazad due to his relentlessness.

I'm glad you have suspicions and reasons for them, but those are both bad reasons.  First, "too townie" is a fallacy.  If someone is playing in a very townlike manner, it is usually because they are, in fact, town.  Relentlessness is similarly a good trait in this game and not something that is attacked over.  Tunneling exclusively on one person is something that bears examination, but not aggression.


Think:  If you were just "stalling for time" waiting for him to post, why unvote him at all?

I'm not even slightly concerned with making you look bad at the moment, I'm just trying to make my case and explain my actions. My follow-up post was not intended to be "oh yeah well you did that too" but more "isn't this a legitimate thing that can be done? Can't we both be in the right?".

It's a good thing to follow up multiple leads.  The way you did it is suspect.



Let me be the first to ask for an extension: there's more to find out today.