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[Sting_Auer]

This was originally a question about whether or not I should have iron maces or spears, and it has become a much large conversation than that.



Discuss the idea uniforms for different situations, and feel free to ask for help in this thread.

[NecroRebel]

You've got it exactly opposite, in fact; blunt weapons are believed to be more effective against armor, while edged weapons, like spears, are believed to be less effective against armor. When a blow strikes armor, it can either pierce the armor, strike the armor, or be deflected by the armor, depending on various factors. It's unlikely for weapons to pierce armor of the same or better material, and iron isn't that good - most goblins will have iron or bronze, which is better. If a blow is deflected, it does nothing. If a blow strikes the armor, though, it is simply converted into a blunt attack, which, with edged weapons' relatively high contact area:size ratio, makes them less effective blunt weapons than actual blunt weapons.

In short, against armored targets, blunt weapons can to a large extent simply ignore the armor, while edged weapons can't. With somewhat-low-quality materials like iron, blunt weapons are superior. In addition, iron isn't actually that bad for blunt weapons, but it's third-worst for edged weapons. Maces or, better yet, warhammers are the way to go.

[Acperience]

Axes for chopping off limbs. Good for unarmored
Hammers are better than maces for anti-armor. Heavier materials are better.
Pickaxes are actually somewhat batter for impaling than spears. Impalement is good for unarmored critical hits.
Swords for more all-round fighting

Crossbows are your only practical ranged option without modding. Bolt material matters more than crossbow material.


Also give your soldiers some leather robes/cloaks. Their defense value isn't high but they can protect against lucky shots and contaminants.

In addition, iron isn't actually that bad for blunt weapons, but it's third-worst for edged weapons.

4 fourth worst and and 3rd best
Iron>Bronze

[Sting_Auer]

You've got it exactly opposite, in fact; blunt weapons are believed to be more effective against armor, while edged weapons, like spears, are believed to be less effective against armor. When a blow strikes armor, it can either pierce the armor, strike the armor, or be deflected by the armor, depending on various factors. It's unlikely for weapons to pierce armor of the same or better material, and iron isn't that good - most goblins will have iron or bronze, which is better. If a blow is deflected, it does nothing. If a blow strikes the armor, though, it is simply converted into a blunt attack, which, with edged weapons' relatively high contact area:size ratio, makes them less effective blunt weapons than actual blunt weapons.

In short, against armored targets, blunt weapons can to a large extent simply ignore the armor, while edged weapons can't. With somewhat-low-quality materials like iron, blunt weapons are superior. In addition, iron isn't actually that bad for blunt weapons, but it's third-worst for edged weapons. Maces or, better yet, warhammers are the way to go.

I probably should have said this in the OP, but I also want to protect against cavern creatures. In fact, cavern creatures are more of a problem for me than outside attackers. My 20 block long, 3 block wide entrance hallway is going to be filled with cage traps, all the way through it. That's 60 cage traps

Spears not being all that good against armor surprises me. You would think that with their great penetration and small contact point would allow them to pierce armor very easily.

So I should go with warhammers for armored opponents?

Axes for chopping off limbs. Good for unarmored
Hammers for anti-armor. Heavier materials are better.
Pickaxes are actually somewhat batter for impaling than spears. Impalement is good for unarmored critical hits.
Swords for more all-round fighting

Crossbows are your only practical ranged option without modding. Bolt material matters more than crossbow material.


Also give your soldiers some leather robes/cloaks. Their defense value isn't high but they can protect against lucky shots and contaminants.

In addition, iron isn't actually that bad for blunt weapons, but it's third-worst for edged weapons.

4 fourth worst and and 3rd best
Iron>Bronze

So, for cavern creatures, I would want axes?

[Acperience]

So, for cavern creatures, I would want axes?

Swords and Spears are also viable if you're into that kind of thing.
Combat is still random and the benefits of certains types of weapons are only somewhat appreciable.

Axes can easily hack of limbs, but it won't necessarily kill the creature, unless you get a beheading in, or the creature dies of blood loss.

Spears can tear internal organs and incapacitate the creature with pain, and it might save some lives if the enemy can't fight back. It's not so great against enemies who don't feel pain and/or don't have many vital organs.

Swords have a stab attack similar to spears with a slashing attack similar to axes.

All weapons have a blunt attack.

[Sting_Auer]

Okay, if I am understanding you, spears would be good against organic creatures, Swords are a great all-purpose weapon, axes are great for lopping off unarmored limbs, and warhammers work against armored opponents.

[celem]

Most cavern creatures axes will do fine.  A large organic Forgotten Beast or some really large regular critter like a jabberer you probably want spears for.  Against large yet unarmoured targets the strength required for amputation with an axe is unreasonable and penetration shots to organs will help you faster.

If iron is the best edge you can field then use blunt weapons and crossbows.  Your summary is correct

Edit: an iron spear while not great isnt as bad as an iron axe.  When your axe meets a gobbo it slashes and probably bounces off iron.  The iron spear also hits iron but in a small contact stab which is better from the physics side of things.

[Sting_Auer]

Most cavern creatures axes will do fine.  A large organic Forgotten Beast or some really large regular critter like a jabberer you probably want spears for.  Against large yet unarmoured targets the strength required for amputation with an axe is unreasonable and penetration shots to organs will help you faster.

If iron is the best edge you can field then use blunt weapons and crossbows.  Your summary is correct

Thanks. I haven't gained access to iron on this map yet, so I was really asking just for future reference.

I only have tetrahedrite right now, so I will most likely make battle axes to defend against the cavern creatures.

I might make some crossbows, but I'm not sure. I've heard they are hard to get your dwarves to use without running at the target and using them as clubs.


What are some other good options for copper weapons? I know that copper is heavy, so wouldn't warhammers be a good choice?

[celem]

Sure it would.  Copper is heavy, its just not as stiff as silver which is the prime blunt material.  If copper is your metal then go for warhammers and maces by all means.  A couple of axes/spears wont hurt for now if you need em for organics, as long as you remember armour will laugh at them.

[Acperience]

Most cavern creatures axes will do fine.  A large organic Forgotten Beast or some really large regular critter like a jabberer you probably want spears for.  Against large yet unarmoured targets the strength required for amputation with an axe is unreasonable and penetration shots to organs will help you faster.

If iron is the best edge you can field then use blunt weapons and crossbows.  Your summary is correct

Thanks. I haven't gained access to iron on this map yet, so I was really asking just for future reference.

I only have tetrahedrite right now, so I will most likely make battle axes to defend against the cavern creatures.

I might make some crossbows, but I'm not sure. I've heard they are hard to get your dwarves to use without running at the target and using them as clubs.


What are some other good options for copper weapons? I know that copper is heavy, so wouldn't warhammers be a good choice?

Ranged weapon users try to first expend all their ammo, then charge to melee.
If the enemy comes within a certain range, they will engage in melee.
If you use the squad kill command, they will engage in melee sooner than if you had stationed them near the enemy.

A ranged army can be a pain to manage, but they are very rewarding and much safer than melee in the long run.

[Sting_Auer]

Most cavern creatures axes will do fine.  A large organic Forgotten Beast or some really large regular critter like a jabberer you probably want spears for.  Against large yet unarmoured targets the strength required for amputation with an axe is unreasonable and penetration shots to organs will help you faster.

If iron is the best edge you can field then use blunt weapons and crossbows.  Your summary is correct

Thanks. I haven't gained access to iron on this map yet, so I was really asking just for future reference.

I only have tetrahedrite right now, so I will most likely make battle axes to defend against the cavern creatures.

I might make some crossbows, but I'm not sure. I've heard they are hard to get your dwarves to use without running at the target and using them as clubs.


What are some other good options for copper weapons? I know that copper is heavy, so wouldn't warhammers be a good choice?

Ranged weapon users try to first expend all their ammo, then charge to melee.
If the enemy comes within a certain range, they will engage in melee.
If you use the squad kill command, they will engage in melee sooner than if you had stationed them near the enemy.

A ranged army can be a pain to manage, but they are very rewarding and much safer than melee in the long run.

Oh, so STATIONING them nearby works better?


Well then, crossbowdwarves it is!

[MonkeyHead]

Better: Use burrows to keep them safe behind fortifications.

Best: Use patrol command to make them retreat, reload and return to firing points behind fortifications.

[Fredd]

When you smelt tetrahedrite, you sometimes get silver. Very good for hammers, and bolts

[Legless]

Guys, I have found out that spears can actually tear limbs off. Strong as two average dwarfs ork fought fragile dwarf. Spear cut off dwarf's right hand. Is it a bug?

[Acperience]

Guys, I have found out that spears can actually tear limbs off. Strong as two average dwarfs ork fought fragile dwarf. Spear cut off dwarf's right hand. Is it a bug?

No one said it can't.

All edge attacks can cut tissue, spears use edged attacks.
It's just got a smaller contact area than swords or axes so it's more likely to pierce muscle and damage organs than tear limbs.