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Author Topic: Horizontal Support?  (Read 2387 times)

NecroRebel

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Re: Horizontal Support?
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2011, 05:34:47 pm »

Here's the fun part: Retractable bridges think they support things. You're free to order things built off of them. Immediate cave-in. This caused me 4 dead dwarves before I learned.

Actually I just determined otherwise - at least for floors.

XXXRXXX
++++XX
++++XH
++++XX

R = retractable bridge
H = hatch
X = open space
+ = floor the dwarves can't reach to build on.
The dwarves tried to build off the hatch, not the bridge.
The reason the dwarves tried to build off the hatch and not the bridge is because you queued all the floors at once, except when you queue a bunch of constructions in one block like that the game queues them in order from top-left, straight down, and then to the next column, with the bottom-right tiles getting queued last. The last construction queued (those closest to the bottom right in this example) are always done first, so because they were queued first the dwarves attempted to do the one near the hatch first. If you had waited long enough, they would have attempted to build off the bridge.
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Farmerbob

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Re: Horizontal Support?
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2011, 05:41:34 pm »

OK, figured out how to make a nice collapsing bridge work.

Also figured out how to keep the dwarves from getting confused and dropping floors while trying to build it.

Getting some screenies and a step-by-step

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Farmerbob

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Re: Horizontal Support?
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2011, 05:52:00 pm »

Here's the fun part: Retractable bridges think they support things. You're free to order things built off of them. Immediate cave-in. This caused me 4 dead dwarves before I learned.

Actually I just determined otherwise - at least for floors.

XXXRXXX
++++XX
++++XH
++++XX

R = retractable bridge
H = hatch
X = open space
+ = floor the dwarves can't reach to build on.
The dwarves tried to build off the hatch, not the bridge.
The reason the dwarves tried to build off the hatch and not the bridge is because you queued all the floors at once, except when you queue a bunch of constructions in one block like that the game queues them in order from top-left, straight down, and then to the next column, with the bottom-right tiles getting queued last. The last construction queued (those closest to the bottom right in this example) are always done first, so because they were queued first the dwarves attempted to do the one near the hatch first. If you had waited long enough, they would have attempted to build off the bridge.

Yup, just retested and you were right.  Learning a lot about suspending bridges and collapse traps today - good !science!

For instance starting like this:

BXB
XXX

where B = bridges and X = floors means your dwarves will drop rocks

Starting like this:

OXO
XXX

where O = open space and X = floors means your dwarves will not drop rocks.

Unless of course you confuse your dwarves by designating floor building elsewhere while they are trying to path for building each successive row of floors...  Like what happened when I tested for the bridge dropping without a hatch around.
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Aspgren

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Re: Horizontal Support?
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2011, 05:58:16 pm »

I was wrong. 

Dwarf Fortress: The only message board on the internet where you can see those three words.

Hey ... you're right!

 This is most likely paranormal.
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Farmerbob

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Re: Horizontal Support?
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2011, 06:26:47 pm »

OK process and reasonable testing nearly complete:

Process which seems to work for consistency - and which will also allow you to rebuild the exact same way after collapsing the trap.

Step 1: Create hallway

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Step 2: Channel down all the tiles - I left the slopes at the edges of the excavation so dwarves could climb out, then built a tunnel later - could have just as easily built tunnel first, then removed all the upward slopes.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Step 3: Build all of the floors that you want to collapse, as well as one floor at each end for your dwarves to build off of, and for them to build a support on at the end.  I used grey stone for the main platform, and dark blue for the two end tiles that will end up being supports.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Step 4: Build the bridges and the supports.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Step 5: Deconstruct the built floors under the supports - you no longer need them.  Use the d -> n command.  If you don't deconstruct the floors under the supports, the trap won't work at all :P

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Your dwarves will happily cross back and forth across this platform with the bridges down

Your dwarves will not travel across the platform with the bridges up, because supports are impassable terrain, and there's no floor under them anyway

If a building destroyer destroys the bridges and support at one end of the platform, big deal - send out some marksdwarves, or set up ballistas.

You can build cages, traps, and chains for animals on the constructed floors as well.

After the initial excavation, the entire building process can be done without entering the hole - and it doesn't care which side you start building from, unlike bridges.  The 4 small bridges shown will not be destroyed in a collapse, even if they are extended - however when rebuilding the platform make sure to raise the bridges or the dwarves will make a hash of the building process and drop a lot of rocks and require lots of re-designations of construction.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 06:51:21 pm by Farmerbob »
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Farmerbob

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Re: Horizontal Support?
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2011, 06:33:26 pm »

Oof there's one thing I did not test - the supports may have been attaching themselves to the ceiling.  This might not work if there's nothing directly above the support.

Gimme a few minutes and I'll start a new fort and do a little more science.

Verified - the supports for this construction do not require anything above them.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 06:42:13 pm by Farmerbob »
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Friendstrange

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Re: Horizontal Support?
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2011, 11:43:38 pm »

When I built a chasm for a doge-me trap I used a retractable bridge. two bridges werent enough to close the gap from one end of the chasm to the other so i built a third bridge that was supported by the other two bridges. And it didnt fall. I linked the three beridges to a lever and tested it.

Now I dont remember the results unfortunately (as I replaced the bridges shortly afterwards I remembered that you cant put traps on bridges.) but the middle bridge either colapsed upon pulling the lever or it was able to retract at the same time as the other bridges. Someone might be interested in testing it.
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