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[kilakan]

It's kilakan who earns my suspicion, though. Headstrong charge into a vote, putting down all the pressure... only to get into a tussle with MaxWhite, laying down an ultimatum for Max to agree with him or be Scum. After this, Kilakan gets called out and instead of continuing to fight for his argument, he utterly collapses, apologizing all along the way. He's been silent since.

Something tells me that's an argument you pulled from your arse Kilakan, and lacking any real conviction in it you crumpled when it hit a rebuttal, lest you look bad. Simply scumtastic.

More coming in a bit. For now, I have to go learn how to move heavy boxes.

So my response to this bullshit reasoning.
A.I was wrong about how nooby the person I was attacking was, I thought I had seem him around more.  Since it is his first game, my opinion of him changed, I said so.
B.I have been busy the last few days, I did a decent sized post not 8 or so replies before your one.  Not all of us can sit at home on our asses all day arguing with people.  So far I have given a good sized post when I actually had the time to make one, and small responses when I had the time.
C.When someone puts forth a good defense, and part of your attack is proven wrong, why would I charge forward with no solid evidence?  I let it go until I can find  something more solid to push at.  Would you push forward with no conviction or evidence?
Solifuge-Give me a fucking decent argument scum instead of just laying down a vote off-hand without having read everything and then pissing off for 3 hours.

My questions were good, so screw you! Sure, they didn't instantly make somebody admit 'Oh noes, your talking to me, you must know I'm scum!' but it would be stupid to expect as much. Anyway, if he was horribly misrepresented, why didn't he say so until after I voted him? I did ask him to clarify on both points.

Yes, I meant the statements.  Since you've done it as town, I see it as a null tell.  Mostly I was looking for defensiveness.  I'd say you're lightly defensive- enough to note, but not enough to hang.

Just out of interest, do you think if I stopped talking to people casually early game, people would stop calling my questions worthless, or are they really that worthless?

Eh, I always get told my questions are useless, and I'm still not 100% sure why.
Also, what the sycophantic part referring to Jim? Na, I just like watching him play, the question was separated from that comment.

It's on? IT'S ON!

Jim: Always a pleasure! You know, I think I find your style of play the most entertaining to watch, glad to see you in this game. So, not much info given about each of the roles... How do you feel about that?
Vector: Good morning! I don't think I have ever asked you, do you enjoy playing as scum, or town more? Do you like to hunt or be hunted?
Dariush: And here we are again. Did you learn anything from roguelike 2?
CrownOfFire: Hello! Hmm, have I seen you play before? Are you a good player or a new one?
Pandar: Panda? Pandar? Do you prefer with or without the r? Well, either way, who makes for a better lynch, somebody who seems a little scummy but there is nobody more clearly scum, or the guy that has been lurking all day?
jakeread1: First game... Well ok! How do you best plan to learn?

So this is the progression of MaxWhite's ideals on his questions, from newest to oldest.  Now the newest MaxWhite is pretty solid on that his questions are good.  Before that he was already getting a bit touchy about the subject of questions, but has yet to actually say that 'he' thinks they are good.  Before that he is saying that he always gets told his questions are useless and shrugs it off.
MaxWhite-Tell us what merits you think there are in each particular question that make them 'good'.

Quite differently. For one, they're obviously shorter, and everyone responds fairly quickly, so it tends to be fairly fast paced. Second, because it's shorter and in IRC format, people don't tend to be quite as wordy as they do here. And third, there tends to be a lot more "weird" setups, so I'm rather used to really weird things happening (like everybody turning into a Goo). Overall though, they're both still Mafia.

Ok then, I'll take that to mean that I won't need to try and tell scum tells from newbie tells. Makes things a little more clear.

He just told you that they were 'quite different' and then listed reasons as to why.  How the hell does that give you "Ok then, I'll take that to mean that I won't need to try and tell scum tells from newbie tells. " 

Vector: Hey Vectory, who's your scumbuddy?

Now I have always thought questions like this were a somebodies attempts at looking like they were doing something, when they have nothing. At one point somebody (I think that was Vector...) told me that is is a trip wire for new players who might forget what they are meant to be keeping a secret, but surly you don't think Vector is that foolish? So what did you hope to get from this?

All I see in this is just a causal question to get someone possibly talking a bit, not to much unlike your own.  What makes this such a crap question when yours are so good?

Max:  Why do you open RVS with buddying questions?

Wait, were the questions buddying, or the statements that went before them? I mean I come here to have fun, so I would rather be nice and sociable to the others playing, even if I am willing to hang their scummy ass, so the opening statements were friendly because I like a friendly game full of backstabbing.
Although if your sure it is the questions your talking about, I don't see it, could you clarify?

Interesting what he says about your opening questions here.

Max:  Your questions were fine this time IMO.  I think your style puts people off (this is a game of suspicion, lying, and distrust, not hugs and friendship) and draws attention.

Well that is a breakthrough! I don’t see why I can’t be all hugs and smiles and still suspect people. But still, now that we have a second opinion.

And then goes on to say that your questions are fine.  Now in between these he does say that he was using it to judge your defensiveness, but frankly it didn't hit you as odd that he would go back and complement you after saying that your questions were buddying.  It's also odd that when you ask if he meant the statements were buddying he says yes but you don't bother saying anything about that.

[Leafsnail]

Leafsnail:  What makes an RVS question worthwhile?  What's a good example, ideally one you did not ask?

I'm not asking for too much in terms of questions.  Vector's first one was fine:

Solifuge.

a. What do you know about this setup, if anything?  Do you have any game-specific tips or tricks to reveal?
b. Who would you most prefer to be on a scumteam with you?  Do you enjoy playing scum?

Vote them for pressure, ask a question that would be slightly awkward to answer as scum is a perfectly valid tactic.  The thing about Max's questions was that there was no accompanying pressure and no room at all for a slipup.  Heck, it'd be challenging to think of a way in which they could produce reads.

Not sure about what you mean by canvassing, but I'd guess you just mean hunting for one.  I'd have to say that I wouldn't be the target because at this point in time using an insta day-kill would be little more then a guess, and I'd think wasting something like that if you were not sure would be a pretty bad move.

Makes sense as an answer.  Unvote.

You're right, I suppose I didn't do anything with my vote after that. It hadn't occurred to me because I was still in the mindset that I had just voted someone (I was feeling a little derp, sue me). And let me ask you a question: if the action undertaken was done so for self-preservation, what about that is scummy? A good townie hunts, but they also don't go around looking for ways to attract votes unnecessarily. My goal was accomplished; Jake answered the question. Maybe not satisfactorily, but that's not what we're discussing here. I understand that caring about appearances is somewhat scummy, but I think that you're trying to set up a false dichotomy: by unvoting I was seeking self-preservation, and must be scum, whereas if I had left my vote there, I don't think anyone here doubts that you would be attacking me for the very thing I avoided.

I wouldn't attack you for "bandwagoning" with only a second (fairly well explained) vote.  But that isn't the issue at all (after all, you said you never considered what I would think about your vote, so it clearly isn't relevant to your motivations).

The issue is that you prioritised your self-preservation over the additional pressure you could have applied.  To be honest, no, I don't think townies care much about appearances, especially over something as small as that.  It strikes me as something someone who is on-guard about being suspected would do.

Leafsnail, as far as I can tell, you're being dumb. What are you hoping to get or prove from your lines of questioning towards various players?

Stronger scum reads on those who show cracks.  Clear evidence of those cracks to be seen by other players.

Leafsnail: Do you consider asking bad questions to be a scumtell?

No.  Not really.  Max keeps pressing the issue and insisting that his useless questions are being useful.  He's probably town but being completely ineffectual at the moment.

What are your suspicions so far?

Jokerman-EXE for self-preservation.  But mainly Pandarsenic because see below.

I remain unimpressed by Max's explanations. For all his floundering, though, he doesn't look that different from in the last Paranormal... where he acted like this and was town. Which still confuses me.

Hey Pandarsenic.  You know what this looks like?  It looks like scum Pandarsenic active-lurking and saying things that he thinks couldn't possibly cause him to get into conflict with anyone.

Now that I think about it, all of your posts are like this, in fact.  It makes sense - I mean, why risk getting into a big fight as scum day 1?  Just sit back and be completely and utterly passive.

[Jim Groovester]

Leafsnail, as far as I can tell, you're being dumb. What are you hoping to get or prove from your lines of questioning towards various players?

Stronger scum reads on those who show cracks.  Clear evidence of those cracks to be seen by other players.

That's a nice, general answer, but I was looking for a specific one. What have you found against the players you're questioning?

I think you've been giving people a needlessly hard time with some of your questions, so I'm hoping that the questions you're asking are leading to something and are not just to make you look like you're active and aggressive.

I might have answered something to that effect earlier, but why not answer again? The reason I made a point of mentioning my nervousness was because that was the undisputed truth. I enjoy mafia, but large games like this is something I haven't participated in in a long time, it's quite some pressure, if I say so myself. I thought I'd try to ease up by relating that nervousness, but it seems I'm not as good at small talk as I gave myself credit for.

I mention mislynches, probably because I'm still reeling from my mistake when I jumped into KotM, in one of the earlier rounds, and I made myself look like an intellectual retard, and got lynched when I was wholly town. So dumb.

I do find it fairly odd to think I'd be setting up some sort of emotional plea, I don't know, days in advance. Even near the end of the first day, that's still 3-4 days of real time, and that's hardly a time to whip out a 'lol, nervous 'member?' type excuse.

I should be clearer about what I find objectionable. You mentioned you were nervous. You went out of your way to mention this, i.e., it wasn't in response to a question somebody asked. Similarly, you mentioned that you were mislynched for your eccentricities. Likewise, you went out of your way to mention this.

You're preemptively offering an explanation for any slipups you may have, and further, you're saying that any slipups you have happen because you're town, because only town gets mislynched.

Now, maybe you're not setting up a preemptive defense of yourself, but it certainly looks that way. You're not some green, bright-eyed newbie so I can't just ignore it for that reason, and I'm not sure I buy that you're so completely out of it that you'd do something like this while you're remembering how to play mafia.

You can understand how a paranoid, experienced scumhunter like myself could look at what you did and be extremely leery of it, can't you?

[JoshuaFH]

Now, maybe you're not setting up a preemptive defense of yourself, but it certainly looks that way. You're not some green, bright-eyed newbie so I can't just ignore it for that reason, and I'm not sure I buy that you're so completely out of it that you'd do something like this while you're remembering how to play mafia.

You can understand how a paranoid, experienced scumhunter like myself could look at what you did and be extremely leery of it, can't you?

I yes, I can understand it. I'm not so unreasonable.

I suppose I got carried away, in that I wanted to set up a defense, but not in the way you describe, an emotional defense. I wanted to put up a front, so that if I made a silly mistake and got MISlynched, then I wouldn't be ostracized. Such is the fragility of my poor ego. It was a thing that got in the way of rational thought, I can agree with that.

[Max White]

Hmm, several posts I should be addressing here. But first, I would like to extend.

A useless followup from a useless question.  Your "context" could have been provided much better by asking a meaningful reading question.  In any case, there were 5 other useless questions you asked along with that one (and another one to me straight afterwards).

I'm not going to put a context to a read with a read. That is silly, and self forfilling. If he does something that could either be a newbie tell or a scum tell, I want to know beforehand if he is a newbie. I can't tell if he is a newbie by pressing for scum, it dosn't work like that.

As far as I can tell he gave a response to your question and then you shoved the words in his mouth while voting him.  So I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

If I shoved the word in he's mouth, he took them happily. He agreeded with both points before I voted for him. He had a chance to defend himself before I voted for him, and he didn't take it, so if he now thinks I am putting words into he's mouth, it is clearly because he dosn't like the vote I put on him.

We're on a forum.  That allows you to look at old threads (indeed, that's how I worked out which game it was).

It is a lot easier to ask you what game you were in than to go through every mafia game, check the player list and roles, and check when you joined. When you want to know something about a player, why not ask? I wanted to know what game you had last played as town, so I asked. But for some reason you seem to object to me seeking information.

None of them had any chance of producing a read on anyone.  I could see this before the complete lack of meaningful followups.  The fact that there were no meaningful followups is what proved me right.  One of the questions was also (hilariously ineffective) buddying.

By themselves, no, they did not. I did not expect a single one of those questions to produce a read. They did however provide me with useful infomation for when the game gets out of RVS.

Because you started asking about exactly why your questions were useless, and it seemed like a relevant point to that (in case you tried to cite your horrible misrepresentation as a success for your questions).  You asked me the question, and now you're confused as to why I answered it, as far as I can tell.

That dosn't answer my question. I did not ask you why you were bringing it up now, I asked you why you did not bring it up before. Once again, if you think I am putting words into Josh's mouth, why not say so until I start to question you?

I remain unimpressed by Max's explanations. For all his floundering, though, he doesn't look that different from in the last Paranormal... where he acted like this and was town. Which still confuses me.

You know what makes me happy, Panda? When people bother to at least question me about my floundering. Because to be perfectly honest, it dosn't make me comfortable when people vote for pressure, or RVS or what ever, then just sit the vote there without pushing, and put it all down to floundering.
Panda: Do you have a second pick?

So this is the progression of MaxWhite's ideals on his questions, from newest to oldest.  Now the newest MaxWhite is pretty solid on that his questions are good.  Before that he was already getting a bit touchy about the subject of questions, but has yet to actually say that 'he' thinks they are good.  Before that he is saying that he always gets told his questions are useless and shrugs it off.
MaxWhite-Tell us what merits you think there are in each particular question that make them 'good'.

Very well.

Jim: Always a pleasure! You know, I think I find your style of play the most entertaining to watch, glad to see you in this game. So, not much info given about each of the roles... How do you feel about that?

I have never played this game type before, as such I'm not exactly sure how everything works, and I'm totally in the dark about what scum we are facing. I don't know about you, but this worries me. Jim answeres honestly even when he is scum, from what I have seen, so asking him if this is something to be worried about was a safe way to get some hints on how to handle this, and boy did I get a useful reply!

The limited town role information isn't as much of an obstacle as it would have been if this were the first Supernatural Mafia, because there are previous games to look at and the town roles, as far as I know, haven't changed between them.

The problem is that the scum roles are still mostly unknown. So far there's been two rounds of Verevolves (1 and RP) and they act like a pretty standard scum team, with special verevolf roles to help them. There's been a Cult (2), and I don't quite remember how dangerous they were. And then there's been one round of Vampires (3), and they were viciously dangerous because they were a cult (in functionality, not name), and also because I was the Vampire Lord and converted Toaster who was a SK on Night 1.

What the makeup of the scumteam is drastically affects how dangerous they are, and unfortunately, there's no way for us to know how dangerous it is until Night 1, when we find out what the flavor of the kill is. This still doesn't tell us how many scum there are, and there's always the possibility of dangerous third parties.

Doing an excellent job of scumhunting is generally the best course of action, and especially so in this game.

To me, at least, this was a wealth of useful tips. I dare say this question was very well justified.

Vector: Good morning! I don't think I have ever asked you, do you enjoy playing as scum, or town more? Do you like to hunt or be hunted?

Vectors play tends to change depending on her mood. I wanted to know a little more about the relation there. Knowing how she feels playing as town and scum is handy .

Dariush: And here we are again. Did you learn anything from roguelike 2?

Just wondering if he was going to try to learn from past mistakes. Turns out the answer was no. Sort of disappointing, but it means we can expect the same level of useless town for games to come.

CrownOfFire: Hello! Hmm, have I seen you play before? Are you a good player or a new one?

We both know a new player plays differently from an old one. Knowing what one he I am dealing with helps, as you no doubt know by now. Just because you made the mistake of attacking a newbie for newbie tells dosn't mean we all want to.

Pandar: Panda? Pandar? Do you prefer with or without the r? Well, either way, who makes for a better lynch, somebody who seems a little scummy but there is nobody more clearly scum, or the guy that has been lurking all day?

Well firstly now I know what he likes to be called, but that wasn't the important part. I wanted to know a little about he's priorties when it came to lynches. How is that not useful?

jakeread1: First game... Well ok! How do you best plan to learn?

This was just a soft question to pull him into the game. Just as Josh said, when nobody is asking you questions you feel a little like an outsider, so I thought this would make for a nice welcome.

All I see in this is just a causal question to get someone possibly talking a bit, not to much unlike your own.  What makes this such a crap question when yours are so good?

What would we ever expect from this sort of question beyond 'I don't have a scum buddy because I am not scum'? Well I don't know, so I asked him what he expected to get. Turns out he didn't know either, he was just trying to be Webba. I said I thought it was crap, and asked him to explain why it wasn't, rather than asserting that it was crap.

Interesting what he says about your opening questions here.

Is it? Tell me why? What did he say about my opening questions and why is it interesting Kilakan?

And then goes on to say that your questions are fine.  Now in between these he does say that he was using it to judge your defensiveness, but frankly it didn't hit you as odd that he would go back and complement you after saying that your questions were buddying.  It's also odd that when you ask if he meant the statements were buddying he says yes but you don't bother saying anything about that.

Oh, do you mean him saying my opening questions were buddying is interesting to you? Maybe you should read the thread.

Max:

Max:  Why do you open RVS with buddying questions?

Wait, were the questions buddying, or the statements that went before them? I mean I come here to have fun, so I would rather be nice and sociable to the others playing, even if I am willing to hang their scummy ass, so the opening statements were friendly because I like a friendly game full of backstabbing.
Although if your sure it is the questions your talking about, I don't see it, could you clarify?

Yes, I meant the statements.  Since you've done it as town, I see it as a null tell.  Mostly I was looking for defensiveness.  I'd say you're lightly defensive- enough to note, but not enough to hang.

You see Kilakan, he didn't think my opening questions were buddying at all. There was no contradiction, but you would know that if you were paying attention.

[Leafsnail]

Firstly: I'd like everyone to look at Pandarsenic's contributions.  Tell me they're not clear activelurking and very typical of Pandarsenic scum in particular.

That's a nice, general answer, but I was looking for a specific one. What have you found against the players you're questioning?

Vector, kilikan and Max are probably town.  Jokerman-EXE is probably scum.  Pandarsenic hasn't responded to me yet but he's scum due to previous actions anyway.

Max: To be honest, this back and forth is getting pointless.  If you want to have a detailed discussion of why I think your questions are useless, it can wait until after the game.  If you think that me calling your questions useless is scummy, make your case clearly now so I can respond to that rather than just explaining again why your questions don't get any results.  I'll respond to your last set of questions and then that's it.

I'm not going to put a context to a read with a read. That is silly, and self forfilling. If he does something that could either be a newbie tell or a scum tell, I want to know beforehand if he is a newbie. I can't tell if he is a newbie by pressing for scum, it dosn't work like that.

You can get context with a pressing question.  Or if you aren't confident with that, try a question that applies pressure and gets context.  As it is your context has done nothing.

If I shoved the word in he's mouth, he took them happily. He agreeded with both points before I voted for him. He had a chance to defend himself before I voted for him, and he didn't take it, so if he now thinks I am putting words into he's mouth, it is clearly because he dosn't like the vote I put on him.

He agreed to both points, then you shoved words in his mouth and voted him.  In the form:
"So, you're in favour of increasing military spending and cutting immigration, right?"
"Yeah"
"OK YOU JUST ADMITTED IT YOU'RE HITLER"

I mean, where did bandwagoning come from?

It is a lot easier to ask you what game you were in than to go through every mafia game, check the player list and roles, and check when you joined. When you want to know something about a player, why not ask? I wanted to know what game you had last played as town, so I asked. But for some reason you seem to object to me seeking information.

Well it's easier from your point of view, but it means I have to go back and look rather than you.  I guess it could've been the case that I remembered my last game though, but it was too long ago for that.

That dosn't answer my question. I did not ask you why you were bringing it up now, I asked you why you did not bring it up before. Once again, if you think I am putting words into Josh's mouth, why not say so until I start to question you?

Because I don't criticise every example of not particularly scummy looking stupidity in the game.  If I did lash out randomly in every direction at once I'd be too thinly spread to actually do anything.  Which is exactly why I want you to either wrap up this argument or make your point now.

[Max White]

Oh good, I was sort of getting tired of that not going anywhere. Still one more thing I want to know though.
Why did you not say that you thought I was putting words into Josh's mouth before I questioned you?

[Leafsnail]

Because I don't criticise every example of not particularly scummy looking stupidity in the game.  If I did lash out randomly in every direction at once I'd be too thinly spread to actually do anything.

[Max White]

Wait, that will teach me to skim. You messed your quotes up, as your quoting me, not Jim.

He agreed to both points, then you shoved words in his mouth and voted him.  In the form:
"So, you're in favour of increasing military spending and cutting immigration, right?"
"Yeah"
"OK YOU JUST ADMITTED IT YOU'RE HITLER"

I mean, where did bandwagoning come from?

He said he would be more active once suspects were found, so he was just going to wait until people started to look suspicous and then start pressing already active suspects. Just waiting for somebody to start attracting attention then push them is waiting for a bandwagon to jump on.

Well it's easier from your point of view, but it means I have to go back and look rather than you.  I guess it could've been the case that I remembered my last game though, but it was too long ago for that.

You don't remember when you were last town? I was under the impression you would know that. If you don't recall the last time you were town, maybe you should say that instead of saying I'm trying to waste time.

Because I don't criticise every example of not particularly scummy looking stupidity in the game.  If I did lash out randomly in every direction at once I'd be too thinly spread to actually do anything.  Which is exactly why I want you to either wrap up this argument or make your point now.

Fair enough.

Because I don't criticise every example of not particularly scummy looking stupidity in the game.  If I did lash out randomly in every direction at once I'd be too thinly spread to actually do anything.

Sorry, thought you were talking to Jim.

[Leafsnail]

Oh right yeah, posted the wrong field.  Oops.

[Jim Groovester]

I suppose I got carried away, in that I wanted to set up a defense, but not in the way you describe, an emotional defense. I wanted to put up a front, so that if I made a silly mistake and got MISlynched, then I wouldn't be ostracized. Such is the fragility of my poor ego. It was a thing that got in the way of rational thought, I can agree with that.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat.

That's what you're worried about.

Whatever. I guess that's satisfying enough.

Unvote. I know you posted some thoughts on other players, but do you have more detailed thoughts that you would like to put down so that players like me can pick at them for flaws and scumtells?

Yap yap yap.

Blah blah blah.

Is there anything I should be paying attention in the both of yours arguments or is it as useless as I think it is?

Firstly: I'd like everyone to look at Pandarsenic's contributions.  Tell me they're not clear activelurking and very typical of Pandarsenic scum in particular.

It's also very typical for town Pandarsenic to jack shit for long periods of time.

But, eh, I'll throw down some pressure.

Pandarsenic,

I remain unimpressed by Max's explanations. For all his floundering, though, he doesn't look that different from in the last Paranormal... where he acted like this and was town. Which still confuses me.

So are you just going to sit on your hands and wait for the deadline to roll around, or are you actually going to go try and find out whether Max White is town or not?

Because, damn, you're sure making an effort to make yourself less confused. Real impressive, dude.

That's a nice, general answer, but I was looking for a specific one. What have you found against the players you're questioning?

Vector, kilikan and Max are probably town.  Jokerman-EXE is probably scum.  Pandarsenic hasn't responded to me yet but he's scum due to previous actions anyway.

Yes, yes, this is what I'm looking for.

Although with the depth of your questioning I was hoping you could also explain how.

[JoshuaFH]

Wait, that will teach me to skim. You messed your quotes up, as your quoting me, not Jim.

He agreed to both points, then you shoved words in his mouth and voted him.  In the form:
"So, you're in favour of increasing military spending and cutting immigration, right?"
"Yeah"
"OK YOU JUST ADMITTED IT YOU'RE HITLER"

I mean, where did bandwagoning come from?

He said he would be more active once suspects were found, so he was just going to wait until people started to look suspicous and then start pressing already active suspects. Just waiting for somebody to start attracting attention then push them is waiting for a bandwagon to jump on.

Wait, what? Max, I have an inkling that this miscommunication is growing more grave on your end. I hardly remember saying, or meaning, anything like this. I know you're reading into things, quite a lot, but this is almost insulting how you're interpreting some things I said offhandedly.

I suppose I got carried away, in that I wanted to set up a defense, but not in the way you describe, an emotional defense. I wanted to put up a front, so that if I made a silly mistake and got MISlynched, then I wouldn't be ostracized. Such is the fragility of my poor ego. It was a thing that got in the way of rational thought, I can agree with that.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat.

That's what you're worried about.

Whatever. I guess that's satisfying enough.

Unvote. I know you posted some thoughts on other players, but do you have more detailed thoughts that you would like to put down so that players like me can pick at them for flaws and scumtells?

If you'll excuse me, I'm still getting into the swing of things, our discussion has warmed me up though. Thanks.

My impression of the day so far is that it feels like a lot of intelligent town players squabbling, but time is not being wasted.

These are my town picks:

Myself
Jim
Leaf
LNCP

?Max?

And scum picks? That's alot harder. In games with a scum teams, I get better feelings from seeing how the players interact, and then I can more easily make judgments based on that, rather than any individual post arousing my suspicion.

I'm going to have to call for an extension as well. This has been a slow day if you overlook the fervent arguing, and some players have definitely not been participating.

[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
CrownOfFire: Dariush
Dariush: JoshuaFH
JoshuaFH: Jokerman-EXE, Max White
kilakan: Solifuge
Max White: kilakan, Pandarsenic, Toaster
Pandarsenic: Jim Groovester, Leafsnail
Solifuge: Vector


Day has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Friday

[Max White]

Is there anything I should be paying attention in the both of yours arguments or is it as useless as I think it is?

Maybe, perhaps your read of it is different from mine. The executive summary of what I managed to get what all is said and done is that leafsnail is soft town.

Wait, what? Max, I have an inkling that this miscommunication is growing more grave on your end. I hardly remember saying, or meaning, anything like this. I know you're reading into things, quite a lot, but this is almost insulting how you're interpreting some things I said offhandedly.

Now why don't you try telling me how I am misinterpreting you, instead of just insisting I am? Unless you make an effort to clarify, I'm going to assume that I am reading things correctly and your just saying I'm putting words in your mouth to cover your own scummy ass. So I'm going to break things down, and your going to tell me where I went wrong. No more just insisting that you never said that.

So you will just sort of hang around until after the RVS, once some suspects come into light?
Is that what your trying to say? It reads that way to me, but I would hate to misquote you.

Yes, that what I'm trying to say.

So you agreed to this statement, no way to deny this one, so let's break down the statement.

So you will just sort of hang around until after the RVS

Interpreted as your just going to make the off post, maybe throw a vote around, but not really put any effort in until after the RVS is over. Like what Leafsnail is accusing Panda of right now. This is active lurking, looking active while really just lurking.

once some suspects come into light?

Interpreted as you will stop active lurking and start doing something once somebody becomes a suspect, so has people pushing them and a few votes. So with both statements you will sit and do not much until there is an easy target that people are already attacking, instead of doing your own leg work.

So tell me, what part of this is there to get wrong?
Also, could you do me a favor and pretend I'm still voting you? I need to take care of something...

Dariush: Care to guess who only has two posts since the thread started? If you guessed lordnincompoop you would be right, and he still has twice the number of posts you have! Although the main difference is that when I check he's post history, he's last two posts have both been in this thread, so it looks like what little time he has on bay12, he uses to keep up with the game. Your post history, on the other hand, shows that you have time to spend in other threads, so why not here?

[Toaster]

Leafsnail:  Fair enough.


Max:  Remember, I said your statements were buddying, but your questions weren't.  It still amounts to a charge of buddying.  In any case, you've done it before as town (and were called on it then) so I don't see it as particularly scummy.  Unvote Max.


Kilakan:

Solifuge-Give me a fucking decent argument scum instead of just laying down a vote off-hand without having read everything and then pissing off for 3 hours.

This is an awfully emotional response to a vote that didn't have much force.  Did he hit a nerve?  You've certainly been spewing a lot of bile this game.


Jakeread:  You've been quiet.  Have you taken this time to get accustomed to the gametype?


Solifuge:  Waiting on Part 2.


Meph: Dariush, Crown, and Jakeread probably need a prod.