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#1: Put the Alarm Siren in the Military Garrison, it fits and is one buildings less.

#1: Keep the Alarm Siren seperate, I want to have it near my other levers.

#2: I have traded with Gnomes, build Artificer and Weather Control Station.

#2: I have NOT traded with Gnomes, did not have the chance to build their buildings.

[kizucha]

With my "more Text"-vote, i hope the same discription-style in the aktual "Ammo-Caster". In the way, "which thing is for that and that good, and this is for this and this good". In exemple cutting damage is good against light armored enemys, piercing is good against armored enemys ect. And maybe for Items where the value important (example: fairwood) a little information, that fairwood have a higher value or something. :)But in all, it's up to you, how many information you will give us with the manual and how many are for "player-science".  And i have not vote for more pictures, i think a little picture for each workshop and items are ok and i need not more.

I'm still fighting with books, they dont want to go to stockpile's.

[smakemupagus]

Proposed first draft of a modified item_weapon_masterwork, mostly to work with the BLUNT issue determined by Wrex; gameplay wise main effect should be to make the Club and Polehammer (orc) and Jitte (elf) much more effective, but I applied the changes as best I could across the whole file for consistency.  Also tweaks some of the edge weapons that come into play in Orc Fortress (tomahawks, keris pairs, serrated scimitars, standard katana) and makes major changes to a couple weapons that were really strange (flamberge, katara).



item_weapon_mood

[OBJECT:ITEM]

#
# Blunt attacks modified Aug 2012 by Smakemupagus on the following principle.  Thanks very much to Wrex.
# Warhammer type attacks: 10:200
# Mace like attacks: 20:200
# Maul/2Hmace like attacks: 100:6000 (big heavy weapons probably still effective with larger area)
# Crude weapons (clubs, flails) 200:6000
# Pommel strikes standardize to 250:4000
# Flat strikes equal to edge of weapon
# Staff strikes 10000 or greater
####
# Since Magmawiki suggests that the penetration variable doesn't have effect, may simplify out some of the variety of attacks that probably aren't actually different

# ITEM_WEAPON_KATANA EDGE upsized from 5000 to 20000 (shortsword similar), still has high penetration
# ITEM_WEAPON_FLAMBERGE stats were really odd; I replaced with Longsword stats
# ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SERRATED EDGE upsized from 5000 to 20000
# Tomahawks and Keris redone, now are intermediate in size between daggers and shortswords/axes
# including ITEM_WEAPON_KERIS, ITEM_WEAPON_TOMAHAWKS, ITEM_WEAPON_KERIS_TWIN
# ITEM_WEAPON_KATARA_TWIN had some absurd penetrations 5x more than spear; reduced
# ITEM_WEAPON_MORNINGSTAR_HEAVENS gains an pierce attack since is morningstar

uploading raw separate, character limit exceeded


DFFD is being wonky today.  Maybe the file is at
http://dffd.wimbli.com/submit.php?action=message&fid=6769
if not i'll get it up later

[Ishar]

"The captain of the guard is caught in a blurst of knowledge!"

Even the libraries are badass in this mod, exploding books and shit.

[Wrex]

The new club is still largely ineffective. It actually breaks limbs on occasion now, but most shots still only cause bruising. I would reccomend to reduce it to a 100 contact area, like a maul. Flails in vanillia DF were good afaik because of their high impact velocity. It still requires a ton of shots on an unconscious enemy to kill him, most often doing nothing more than shattering his skull. The flail can have such a high contact area because of the force with which it can connect, but the club can;t do that. A silver flail, between two shield using orcs, will break bones fairly often, whereas a club will not.

EDIT: Mauls, in vanilla DF, are actually the worst blunt weapon due to the high contact area. If you want it to retain such a high area, massive force multiplication is neccesary, since a plain singlegrasp hammer, without a shield, is still almost always better.

[Meph]

Interesting. Thanks you two for the work on this. I thought the higher velocity and weapon size would make up for this, but apparently there is much more balancing to be done.

[smakemupagus]

Thanks again, Do you still have your contact logs handy?  I'm curious whether you got the broken bones on "beatings" and the bruises on "bludgeons"

[ATTACK:BLUNT:20:200:beat:beats:NO_SUB:1200]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:200:6000:bludgeon:bludgeons:NO_SUB:1300]

I'll take it down to 100 for the bludgeons anyway.

[Wrex]

Beats were definitly the bone breaking injuries. I'm testing it with an area of 100 at the moment, and taking mauls down to 75 to see what they do.


EDIT: The beating attacks however, did not always break bones, but that is to be expected. Clubs are defintily better weapons for Orcs than dwarves, since it seems dwarves lack the strngth to deal significant damage with the 100 area "Bludgeon" attack, wheras an orc will smash quite a few limbs. I don't want to eclipse other weapons, so that should be good, but I will continue testing.

EDIT AGAIN: Intrestingly enough, the bludgeon appears to be a better attack when at 100 contact area. will continue testing.

Probably final edit: 20 and 100 seems good. Silver clubs are good, but often not as good as a "real" weapon. Adding the "whirls aroudn with outstretched arms" attacks to the club should balance it out.

[smakemupagus]

Maybe like so?

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CLUB]
[NAME:club:clubs]
[SIZE:650]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[TWO_HANDED:27500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:25000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:4]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:100:6000:bludgeon:bludgeons:NO_SUB:1300]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:20:200:beat:beats:NO_SUB:1800]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:20:200:backhand:backhands:NO_SUB:1200]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:100:6000:whirl around and mightily bludgeon:whirls around and mightily bludgeons:NO_SUB:3000]

[Meph]

I would really like to know what exactly the difference between:

10:1000:verb:verb:5000 and 50:1000:verb:verb:1000 is. How strong is the relation between contact area and velocity. But anyway, guess I will add your fixes/balancing to the weapon raws I currently have.

[kenright]

Well that was interesting...

I was all happy with mah Magma Temple Of Armok, offering a few iridium wafers to Armok for the hope of getting a Golem Heart (Thus ensuring a worthy life for the many worthless peasants in my fortress) when it exploded.

It just went POOF in a puff of what I presume was boiling smoke, nothing intact save for the priest-dwarf that was giving the offering.

[OREOSOME]

Must have been the unbelievers nearby. Armok was just dealing with the heretics.

[kenright]

Also peculiar, is that after the explosion about 12 dwarfs congregated in the area around the priest, and would not move even after getting hungry, thirsty, and tired. I used dfhack and turned the stone floors into stone floors and that seemed to wake them up from their stupor...

[Wrex]

The meteor hammer is still pretty bad. the "super" move is obviously okay, shattering whatever it hits, but the rest don't do more than dent bones.

[Meph]

Your temple did explode ? ... What ?  Shouldnt happen. ^^

[smakemupagus]

I would really like to know what exactly the difference between:

10:1000:verb:verb:5000 and 50:1000:verb:verb:1000 is. How strong is the relation between contact area and velocity. But anyway, guess I will add your fixes/balancing to the weapon raws I currently have.

Hmmmmmm.  Yeah, very interesting question.  We know the material stats that Toady keeps track of are yield and fracture stresses (Force per area) and strain at yield.  Let's put aside strain for now... that probably governs how badly you can get hurt by blows that don't fully penetrate armor, and is surely crazy complicated.  If deformation also governs the time dynamics of collisions then Armok help us.

Units of force are: mass * velocity * 1/s
Therefore units of yield are: mass * velocity * 1/area * 1/s

therefore my best guess is that when it comes to exceeding the yield strength of materials (armor, bone?), the tradeoff between velocity and area is linear.