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[PlumpHelmetMan]

Dont really agree for the most part. I think the new UI is better in most ways. It can still be a chore to find some things in nested menus but its no where near as bad as it used to be. If you played pre-steam you know how vital tools like dwarf therapist were to manage jobs in a sane way. A lot of this quality of life functionality is now integrated into the game and it's just flat out better.

One thing I dislike about the new UI at least is how ASCII mode is handled at the moment. The focus on mouse control for designations means it can be difficult to make precise designations when playing in ASCII mode. I've noticed a few problems with some UI screens in ASCII mode as well, like the lack of text for labor roles compared to in graphical mode, but a lot of these things are very minor and will be ironed out not too long from now I'm sure.

This is my experience almost word for word. I have no shortage of minor grievances, but I can't say I've had anywhere near as hard a time adjusting as some people seem to. Unless I've been hallucinating continuing to play DF these past two years, then clearly the new UI can't be "unplayable". That said, I've certainly experienced the frustration of having the rules of something changed on you just when you think you've mastered them, so I can still empathize with the mindset. It's a shame to admit, but I think the reality is that the nature of DF's development means that it would be very hard (perhaps even impossible) to create a UI for it that any majority of players would be totally happy with. Considering what they were working with, my personal opinion is that Toady and Kitfox did the best they could in the time they had to accomplish it.

[ArmokGoB]

I really got into DF as a teenager because I broke my right hand and couldn't play a lot of games. It saddens me that they're making it harder for people to play without the mouse.

[pisskop]

I learned without the mouse,and I would honestly prefer to keep it accessible on say a laptop without a mouse.

I used to play this in class at uni., not needing to mouse was just easier.

[WerePanda]

I want to point out that a UI overhaul was being promised from basically the very beginning. Sooner or later everything was going to change, it had to, and I predict that it will change drastically in the future. I've been spending the past few weeks relearning the new UI and I don't think it's better or worse, it's just different. 

The old UI is horrific and the keybinds make absolutely no sense. It was cobbled together as new features were layered on and it shows. I don't care what you think, having a massive stupid list of 20+ actions with unique keybinds stuck to the side of the screen is not good design. There's no intuition here either. Why are Zones separated from Points/Routes/Notes which are separated from Burrows? These could all have been placed under a sub menu. The old UI has loads of problems, you're just used to them.

This is not to say that the new UI is perfect, I have my problems with it too. I don't like how space inefficient it is and I miss some features that didn't migrate over such as Notes or Recording. I like the ability to filter lists of items but the system is sometimes buggy and wont work. I miss the LNP and being able to disable aquifers at the click of a button, and I especially dislike the way labour is set up. But I have faith in this project and its future. I will continue to play new versions of the game in spite of my superficial grumblings.

The old UI did have one advantage which is its accessibility. I agree with many others that a keyboard-only mode should be re implemented into the game, but I personally don't think that's going to happen until more revisions to the UI are made.

[ArmokGoB]

I want to point out that a UI overhaul was being promised from basically the very beginning. Sooner or later everything was going to change, it had to, and I predict that it will change drastically in the future. I've been spending the past few weeks relearning the new UI and I don't think it's better or worse, it's just different. 

The old UI is horrific and the keybinds make absolutely no sense. It was cobbled together as new features were layered on and it shows. I don't care what you think, having a massive stupid list of 20+ actions with unique keybinds stuck to the side of the screen is not good design. There's no intuition here either. Why are Zones separated from Points/Routes/Notes which are separated from Burrows? These could all have been placed under a sub menu. The old UI has loads of problems, you're just used to them.

This is not to say that the new UI is perfect, I have my problems with it too. I don't like how space inefficient it is and I miss some features that didn't migrate over such as Notes or Recording. I like the ability to filter lists of items but the system is sometimes buggy and wont work. I miss the LNP and being able to disable aquifers at the click of a button, and I especially dislike the way labour is set up. But I have faith in this project and its future. I will continue to play new versions of the game in spite of my superficial grumblings.

The old UI did have one advantage which is its accessibility. I agree with many others that a keyboard-only mode should be re implemented into the game, but I personally don't think that's going to happen until more revisions to the UI are made.

The old UI was entirely opaque in the same way as most traditional roguelikes and ancient programs like Vim. It was basically unusable unless you put it a lot of time and effort to learn it, but you could do things quite efficiently once you figured it out. The new UI is far more intuitive, and probably usable by most people that aren't entirely new to games, but it's clunky in some areas. Some of the UI functions aren't immediately clear from the icons (looking at you, delete squad button), and performing certain tasks needs a lot of repetitive, mixed KB+M commands. Queuing up a bunch of orders at a workshop is one of the more egregious examples of this. I suspect that's why you don't actually need your manager to have an office to use the work orders menu anymore. In fact, I don't know if you need a manager at all anymore to set up work orders. There is also the previous point I (and some others) made about it not always being feasible to use a mouse. This is particularly relevant, because DF has always been touted as a game you could run on nearly anything. I used to run it on a pre-21st Century tower that I scavenged for as a teenager. The issues are somewhat balanced out by the ease of making complex, repeating designations with KB+M, but we could have both KB and KB+M for different use cases.

I've played this game enough to have near-mastery of it. I think I started playing 0.34.11 a week or two before the next version came out. Because of that, I had to learn basically nothing about how the actual game played at the same time I was learning the new UI, and I had a lot of previous experience to guide me through the changes. I would give it a generous 7/10 overall, having this prior knowledge. I've seen many Steam reviews criticizing the UI, despite the changes made. I think saying "The new UI is shit," isn't really productive or descriptive, but some serious time should be taken to figure out how the UI could be improved upon, and to implement those changes, before The Big Wait.

[Spurdo McBurdo]

You just have to get used to it. I thought the same, but after 2 forts, I got used to clicking instead of using memorized shortcuts. It's not ideal, but if you give it some time, it will become a second nature just like <=47.05.

[Lucidess]

Hello. So some are claiming that it's "unplayable" and that's simply not true. Terminology is important to me, maybe you should report it as a bug instead.

It doesn't need to be compared to the old UI to be put down. I have no idea what the old UI is other than the fact that it's keyboard exclusive, and I use a mouse with no issues. Sucks to hear that some people have inflammation in their wrists when using a mouse, but personally I use a mouse all day long with no problems so don't blame DF for that.
I could rip on the old UI for being keyboard only and you wouldn't like that, so let's focus on something else. If you don't like the new UI because you used the old UI, it's because you are relying on muscle memory to use a completely different looking menu right? With the exact same functions in the end. So it doesn't seem like an issue if you just learn what the menu looks like. You know how to play Dwarf Fortress right..? but yeah sucks to hear anybody that can't use a mouse, but i'm sure there are alternatives to mouse controls.. what about touch screens?

Why not compare the new UI to another sim game? What do you think the ideal MOUSE menu looks like? Any specific complaints other than that it isn't the old UI?

 I have a lot of suggestions for the new UI for it to improve, but I probably won't be heard out.
-Stockpile menu needs a filter option to remove all the items that are not currently in your fort to setup customizable stockpiles easier.
-All menu's need to be more compact.
-All buttons need to be closer to each other.
-Sorting filter buttons need to be bigger / hotkeys binded to them.
-Less movement on mouse should be focused on over time.
-Add a radial menu when you right click anywhere like Neverwinter Nights did.
-more hotkeys for the keyboard lovers, and i would love it too.

[jecowa]

-All buttons need to be closer to each other.

You might try opening the Video settings then lower the "Maximum interface percentage (not counting minimap/elevation)" percentage.

[pisskop]

Im a little surprised there isnt a mod to remap keybindings or restore the old style.

[nuget102]

Im a little surprised there isnt a mod to remap keybindings or restore the old style.

That isn't really possible - maybe with the new Lua system it could potentially be possible? But that would require a rewrite and change of how the new UI is even laid out.

[symonthewise]

I agree, unfortunately.

When I began playing many years back now, I always heard the UI was horrible and counterintuitive from video game people. This never matched my experience playing, which was that the game quite effectively conveyed a lot of complex information, with the restrictions of graphical style being used. I also never really heard a complete or compelling argument as to why these people believed the UI was so bad, and it eventually seemed to me they were all just repeating each other as a way of seeming knowledgeable about something they probably had little practical experience with. Like it was the one insight you could point to to show you knew about this esoteric game. This criticism was so widespread I overheard it a bar in Toronto, also by people who seemed to have very marginal knowledge of the game otherwise. Even on the forum, my memory is that most people who posted here were quite comfortable with the UI, while admitting to a bit of a learning curve.

Eventually I noticed Tarn develop a sort of apologetic, self deprecating attitude about the UI, which he did not deserve in my opinion as I think he did a rather good job.

DF was a great game to play on a laptop, where you might not have a proper mouse. It was also nice to not use the mouse after working, as drawing and other computer work strains the arm in a way the keyboard does not. It was also fairly unique, whereas now the menus feel a bit more generic to the genre that DF started.

So, in my opinion, a real degeneration. I still have the old version around somewhere, which is still fun so no big deal.

[Mungrul]

I wouldn't call it shit, per se, and I certainly don't mind it, but it's telling that I've taught myself all of the new keyboard shortcuts rather than relying on clicking icons.